Accelerated/Cheap EMT-Basic in Colorado

[DwayneEMTP]

We can always find the exception...The old beater car with a race car engine in it, the thin kid that can lift more than the muscle head, etc. But betting on that usually isn't a great idea.

Is a $2,000.00 class going to be better than a $200.00 dollar class? Almost certainly. Will there be exceptions? Sure. But the books for EMT B and an instructor's time will be worth more than $200 for the time it takes to teach a class, and if they're not, then, no, I wouldn't bet on the quality of the program.

I pay over $100/month for the gym that Babs and Dylan (and me when I'm home) go to, despite there being one right around the block for $30/month. Ours has personal trainers, several hundred free classes per month, a cafe, pools and water slides. The other has a bunch of weights. Quality costs money, it really is as simple as that. Might the next Mr. Universe or gold medal winner in the next Olympics come out of the gym around the corner? Could be, but when I checked it out I certainly didn't see anyone that struck me as terribly ambitious. My guess would be that you might find the same different in classes at opposite poles of the financial spectrum.

Can good providers come out of cheap, easy programs? Sure. Can good providers that began looking for cheap, easy programs come out of cheap easy programs? I'm not betting my family's lives/health on it.

I also agree that accelerated is doable for those with an appropriate background in the material being sought. But again, when 'accelerated' and 'cheap' are desired, without quality being one of the criteriu querried...it's pretty hard to get onboard with such an individual. Particularly when they choose not to participate in their own thread.

I was exactly such a person. I was going to take the AMR $5k (I think) zero to hero paramedic course but was talked into a degree program instead by the folks here. I still look at that as my person 'dodged bullet.' I'm also really, really glad that I didn't run away when I didn't get the advice that I thought that I wanted...

[MariB]

Was my program free? Yes for me it was but not for my squad who paid a sizable amount.

I signed a contract stating I would give them 2 years of service or pay it back. In the mean time I get Fred training every month that goes records free certification also.

Just because I am on a volunteer squad doesn't mean it was a free program. It just means I didn't pay for it myself.

And the paramedic AA programs here have about the same prerequisites as the ADN programs

[Just Plain Ruff]

I am puzzled by some believing you have to go to an expensive class in order for it to be good. More expensive does not always mean better. I would not consider hiring a CNA who paid almost $2000 for a 200 hour course anymore or less than I would someone who paid $200 for the same course someplace else. In fact, I would probably give more credit to the CNA who shopped around for one which left money for some college credits later. An RN who went to a state university and paid $40,000 for a BSN has the same career opportunities and earning potential as the one who paid $120,000 at a private college. If one accelerated the process by taking more credits in the first two years or even started while in high school, so much the better if they can handle the load.

EMT is also an entry level course. I remember telling people that they could get involved in EMS by volunteering for the local ambulance and have their EMT training for free. They took the same test as someone who paid $2000 for it in the city. I have also seen the EMT course offered in high school along with their other studies. The total hours were the same.

I don't believe we should discourage people from entry level jobs by making them so expensive they can not afford it or will be too much in debt to advance later. I also believe someone can start college to work towards a degree in something and not be forbidden from doing so. Nursing does not discourage a new CNA from applying to college to work on the prerequisites to the RN program. A new CNA can also apply to the program if they have all the prerequisites. I know most Paramedic programs don't have prerequisites but that does not mean you should limit yourself by not taking college classes. A lot could happen in a year to change your mind.

Accelerated is also relative to the person. I will use the CNA again although much of it is learned in a clinical situation with only about 60 hours in the classroom. If someone can do 40 hours of clinicals per week and get through the class faster than someone doing only 8 hours, I really don't see anything wrong with that. I don't believe you should be restricted to the 3 hour classes twice a week if you can do more. Full time college students go many more hours than that. The average nursing student may put 40 hours per week in the classroom or clinical setting along with that many more expected outside of the classroom. I don't believe the EMT (or CNA) course even comes close to the expectations of nursing or other health professions when it comes to academics or clinicals.

My response was not directed at the cheap cheap I want it cheap part, I thought his attitude of coming here after he said he had already done all his searching and that he knew it all already but just hadn't found the right stuff attitude.

He struck me as a zero to hero type of person that didn't want to spend the effort in a class that would teach him anything, he just wanted a class that he could get in and out of to get on to his next phase.

While that might be good for his particular career path, I don't really feel comfortable telling someone who is off the street that Hey you know what, there's this quick 6 week emt class that you can take, it will teach you the basics (just barely enough for you to pass the class but NOT A GOSH DANG BIT MORE) and you too can be among the ranks of EMT's. Do you really want an emt like that taking care of your family or you? Not me.

I have always been against having to be an EMT first and then getting your medic as I don't know of really any other profession that requires you to be a basic and then go to school to become a professional. Do you have to be a LPN in order to be a RN? Do you have to be a RN in order to be a MD or DO or DDS? We are the only healthcare profession that requires our people to get their basic license prior to the next advanced level.

Sure the MD needs to get a bachelors degree but don't we scream about getting a bachelors degree or Associates degree based medic here?

[iStater]

Is a $2,000.00 class going to be better than a $200.00 dollar class? Almost certainly. Will there be exceptions? Sure. But the books for EMT B and an instructor's time will be worth more than $200 for the time it takes to teach a class, and if they're not, then, no, I wouldn't bet on the quality of the program.

When it comes to a $2000 course I think of the flashy ads on TV for entry level careers. Those schools probably everything but most of the profit goes for advertising and the owners of the schools. I believe community colleges can also offer quality education for a certificate at much less and have more resources. The state community colleges will usually be accredited and transfer of credit will not be a problem if you take additional classes. The teachers may also be required to have at least an Associates degree in something related to that profession while a private vocational school may only require the instructor to hold the same certificate level. For example, the CNA program at the college will have an RN with a minimum of a BSN and at least 2 years experience going over to the CNA program to teach while also teaching some classes in the RN program. The private vocational school will have an RN or LPN overseeing the program but may not be doing the actual teaching. I also know an RN who is also an EMT and teaches at a volunteer squad.

For the length of time, if more than 6 or 8 hours per week is too much for a student to handle, that would mean all the Associates degree programs should take over 8 years to complete. Even high school students have more time each day in a classroom. Some have also taken the EMT course while in high school while taking other courses. I really don't think time should be a barrier especially for a vocational class. Some people try to get entry level job training because of being laid off or they need to support themselves for whatever reason. Some think it is also bad because many do take the course because it is a requirement for the fire department application. I also know many who rush through additional certs or testing just for the sake of having the letters to apply for a CCT or Flight job and don't really have all the experience necessary.

[scubanurse]

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My response was not directed at the cheap cheap I want it cheap part, I thought his attitude of coming here after he said he had already done all his searching and that he knew it all already but just hadn't found the right stuff attitude.

He struck me as a zero to hero type of person that didn't want to spend the effort in a class that would teach him anything, he just wanted a class that he could get in and out of to get on to his next phase.

While that might be good for his particular career path, I don't really feel comfortable telling someone who is off the street that Hey you know what, there's this quick 6 week emt class that you can take, it will teach you the basics (just barely enough for you to pass the class but NOT A GOSH DANG BIT MORE) and you too can be among the ranks of EMT's. Do you really want an emt like that taking care of your family or you? Not me.

I have always been against having to be an EMT first and then getting your medic as I don't know of really any other profession that requires you to be a basic and then go to school to become a professional. Do you have to be a LPN in order to be a RN? Do you have to be a RN in order to be a MD or DO or DDS? We are the only healthcare profession that requires our people to get their basic license prior to the next advanced level.

Sure the MD needs to get a bachelors degree but don't we scream about getting a bachelors degree or Associates degree based medic here?

You need your BSN to move up to a nurse practitioner which is an advanced practice degree...

[iStater]

My response was not directed at the cheap cheap I want it cheap part, I thought his attitude of coming here after he said he had already done all his searching and that he knew it all already but just hadn't found the right stuff attitude.

He struck me as a zero to hero type of person that didn't want to spend the effort in a class that would teach him anything, he just wanted a class that he could get in and out of to get on to his next phase.

While that might be good for his particular career path, I don't really feel comfortable telling someone who is off the street that Hey you know what, there's this quick 6 week emt class that you can take, it will teach you the basics (just barely enough for you to pass the class but NOT A GOSH DANG BIT MORE) and you too can be among the ranks of EMT's. Do you really want an emt like that taking care of your family or you? Not me.

I have always been against having to be an EMT first and then getting your medic as I don't know of really any other profession that requires you to be a basic and then go to school to become a professional. Do you have to be a LPN in order to be a RN? Do you have to be a RN in order to be a MD or DO or DDS? We are the only healthcare profession that requires our people to get their basic license prior to the next advanced level.

Sure the MD needs to get a bachelors degree but don't we scream about getting a bachelors degree or Associates degree based medic here?

I agree with you. But it is sometimes difficult to know exactly what someone is thinking especially if English and writing are not their strong points. Some might want to come across as eager but could also be mistaken for being a slacker if they want something fast. This generation is also a "me right now" one and they want instant gratification. Different cultures (not necessarily foreign in origin) and different generations can influence the interpretation of the written word. We spend hours in school trying to interpret what someone is getting at and the same in our careers as we try to get through all the research.

There are now RN programs which require the CNA since that world has become so competitive.

[Just Plain Ruff]

RN programs requireing CNA, what the hell is this world coming to?? OH the humanity. But I digress.

Anywho, I hope the guy found what he was looking for. If it was simply and strictly a means to an end and he truly needed it like JG Wentworth "I need my class and I need it now" then hoo rah and all the more good on him.

But I don't want our new folks who are just coming into this field to think that the 6 week emt or the 5 month medic mill is the way to go because it simply isn't.

[iStater]

RN programs requireing CNA, what the hell is this world coming to?? OH the humanity. But I digress.

Anywho, I hope the guy found what he was looking for. If it was simply and strictly a means to an end and he truly needed it like JG Wentworth "I need my class and I need it now" then hoo rah and all the more good on him.

But I don't want our new folks who are just coming into this field to think that the 6 week emt or the 5 month medic mill is the way to go because it simply isn't.

For nursing, the CNA is a reality check. Some will spend over 2 years on a waiting list for a nursing program and then run away screaming once they get in. They had visions of big money and didn't get the message about all the patients and responsibility. That then leaves a vacancy which could have been filled by someone who really was wanting to be a nurse for the patient side of it. The CNA also covers many of the basics which that time can then be used for other education. I have read and heard some nursing students complaining about repetition and lots of boring stuff with very little action. They also spent too much time watching medical soap operas and TV shows.

The EMT might get more excited especially when you give a 19 y/o a uniform, big ambulance, lights, sirens and the ability to speed.

The length of the program is also a good comparison. There are still some in nursing who see no need to get the BSN even though the profession is rapidly reaching the 50% mark for higher degreed and employers are preferring it. Their short cut is the ADN or the private school Associates. Until it is mandatory, no amount of preaching will change the mind of some since the minimum standards are still too low for nursing when compared to other countries. I think EMS is seeing this also. If you can do the same things with 6 months of training and education, some might say more time is not useful.

[DwayneEMTP]

IStater, you're a girl? Man, I have to pay better attention to the left side of the screen...

Say, when you say that American nursing standards are low compared to the rest of the world, how do you make that comparison? I've heard that here since my first day, about paramedics, but have certainly not found it to be accurate in my travels. I've not had to hang my head around medics or nurses from any of the many countries representing medical in the places that I've been. In fact, I've always felt really strong around non U.S. medics, and certainly around the nurses from other countries.

I'm just curious where the comparison comes from, from you and others that feel the same.

Thanks for participating...your posts rock.

[iStater]

^{I thought countries like Canada, Australia, UK, and NZ all had higher education for Paramedic. My mistake if that is not correct. I know my state does not require any type of degree or even college to be a Paramedic and the clinical hours are not very much either. I get a lot of my info about other states in EMS from the transport EMTs working with us. Thank you for correcting me about the US Paramedic education level. I just took it to be more of a certificate like my state's Paramedics since most of the firefighters have their Paramedic license. I guess I'll have to give them more credit for their dual role requirements.}

^{In Canada the two year program is a practical nurse. The UK and Australian nurses are also more like the BSN and some with an expanded scope since there are not all the allied health professionals you have in the US. I believe this is true for several other countries as well. RTs are not heard of in any countries except the US and Canada.}

^{Have you not had any problem with reciprocity getting a Paramedic license in other countries you work in? In many countries the nurse is not listed as being a high demand profession to get a work permit or visa. Other countries also prefer RNs to have a BSN or MSN. Even the US military sets it entry for the RN at BSN.}

^{You also have to remember that some degrees we think of as a Bachelors taking 4 years in the US may only take 3 in other countries because of the differences in their elementary and high school systems. Their HS seniors are probably more like our community school grads in some ways. Now there are statistics available to show the education in the US basically sucks for some of our school children whose scores are lower when compared to the equivalent in other countries.}

Edited August 28, 2013 by iStater