Lone Star Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Fortunately, things here in GA have been pretty quiet since the verdict was read. As far as George Zimmerman goes, since he didn't stick to the 'observe and report' duties of his Neighborhood Watch Program, I think that there should be some sort of consequences for his actions. In Michigan, the 'Stand Your Ground' law provides protection in a JUSTIFIED shooting situation that you shall be held free from criminal and civil liability. I don't think that in this case that the protections of this law should be invoked. It's clear that Mr. Zimmerman SHOULD have stuck to the 'observe and report' functions, but didn't It's been suggested that Mr. Martin had a record of violent and criminal infractions in his past, and that he used/abused drugs. It's painfully clear Mr. Martin is being painted as an 'angel', while Mr. Zimmerman is being portrayed as a 'saint'. Unfortunatley, the truth is nowhere near by.... Mot Penal Codes will provide for self-defense, with 'equal and opposite force', meaning that if Dwayne slaps me with an open hand, then I'm only justified in slapping hi9m back. If I come at Dwayne with a 2x4, then he would be justified in breaking out "old Faithful" (a Louisville Slugger baseball bat) to defend himself. Introduce a weapon, (gun, knife, baseball bat, pipe, etc) then all bets are off and someone is going to get shot.... I don't know who actually initiated the confrontation, but Mr. Martin paid with his life....since both are at fault, I think there should be some 'punishment' for the other participant as well....(NOT that I'm saying that Mr. Marting deserved what he got).... As far as mikeymedic1984, we've seen that rancid vomitus before.....
Kaisu Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Obviously none of you have watched the video link I posted. Stand your ground has nothing to do with this. The dispatcher's routine advice is thoroughly explained. Please educate yourselves. You are all uninformed - voicing opinions without the facts.
paramedicmike Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Obviously none of you have watched the video link I posted. Stand your ground has nothing to do with this. The dispatcher's routine advice is thoroughly explained. Please educate yourselves. You are all uninformed - voicing opinions without the facts. So is the guy in the video who admits from the beginning he's not a legal expert and repeatedly states that he's speculating with regards to much of his commentary.
Iowa Medic Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) I'm amazed people are surprised by this verdict. I will state unequivocally that it is Possible that Zimmerman is/was guilty of being a hateful racist vigilante intent on killing a black male in his neighborhood. That said, what data would you have used to convict Zimmerman? Zimmerman was a racist... Infact he tutored underprivileged African Americans and the local LE as well as the FBI over a 16 month investigation could find anything in his past to even suggest he had racist tendencies. Jel went to his highschool prom with an African American girl and took up for an African American man in a case where the black man accused the Sanford PD of abuse The medical examiner stated the only way the fatal shot could have occurred was if TM was on top of Zimmerman and within 20 inches of the weapon. The 9mm used had a full magazine minus one bullet and the chamber was empty. The only way this could occur was for something being on the slide not allowing for the natural recoil to automatically replace the discharged bullet. This fact again lends credibility to Zimmerman's version of TM reaching for his gun. Zimmerman had a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head which lends validity to his versions of the event. The multiple 911 calls which recorded the multiple screams for help immediately before the discharge of the weapon also validate Zimmerman's version as well as the medical examiners version as it seems unlikely that someone who was in the mounted position throwing punches would be screaming for help. Two eyewitnesses that confirm someone fitting TMs description and clothing was mounted onto of another person throwing punches. Eye witness testimony also validates Zimmerman's version in stating they saw someone fitting TMs description punching Zimmerman in the face prior to mounting him Zimmerman was within his right to follow the person in question and further phoned 911 which in my opinion doesn't coincide well with a radical racist vigilante looking to shoot a black person. Stand your ground has nothing to do with this case. This was 100% a self defense case and while TM also had a right to defend himself but only up to a point... That is to say if Zimmerman did initiate the physical aspect of the case once TM gained the advantage to a point where Zimmerman felt there was a danger of great bodily harm or death he then had the right to use deadly force. In an EMS forum I think we all would agree bashing a persons head against pavement could lead to death TM was propped up to be an innocent child even using pictures of him as a 12-13 year old instead of the 6'2 185 lb man. Recently released Twitter posts show a young man who was far from the innocent child the media would have you believe and confirms that this young man had been suspended from school for things ranging from drugs to possessing stolen items and what the school LE officer stated was "burglary tools" Texts messages show TM had discussed street fighting and obtaining a gun...again radically opposed to the image most media and the likes of Rev. Al would have you believe Again, I don't know what took place but for everyone stating that they are surprised by the verdict or position themselves as if they know what took place despite the overwhelming data to the contrary are using nothing more than the visceral response to the death of a young man and not facts . Edited July 18, 2013 by Iowa Medic
Kaisu Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Thank you so much Iowa medic. The reason I wanted the video watched was these facts are presented in an orderly way. I personally was not aware of the facts of the case and had not formed an opinion at all. It was interesting to see. So is the guy in the video who admits from the beginning he's not a legal expert and repeatedly states that he's speculating with regards to much of his commentary. What he does present is the basis for the verdict. And he states when he is speculating and then states what is evidence. You can make up your own mind.
BushyFromOz Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 For goodness sake Iowa, you cant inject fact and logic into these discussions, its just not internet - like 1
Just Plain Ruff Posted July 18, 2013 Author Posted July 18, 2013 Iowa, I was surprised by the verdict not because of what you said but because well, it just seems that so many times in cases like this, the wrong verdict is handed down. I am so proud of the jury making the right decision. I had no illusions that George Zimmerman was innocent of all charges except for being stupid for continuing to follow TM and had he not have done that and did what the dispatcher said which was "you don't have to do that" and his reply was "Ok" this probably would not have happened. But he did and we are left with this. Now we have the Justice department trolling for some sort of Civil rights charges even after the FBI had found that Trayvon's civil rights were not violated. I'm going to put this out there, the majority of my friends who are African American are wanting more to be done with Zimmerman. They either want him vigilante'd down or they want more charges federally, while my non-colored friends are saying "it's over and done with" lets move on to the next racial case. There is a real divide there and it's unfortunate. I even have one friend who says that if the circumstances were switched and were exactly the same (you get the idea) that there should be no trial or charges for the black man who shot the white kid. That it would be justice for all the injustice's of white on black oppression. Yeah he's an idiot and a race baiter. I tend to stay away from him at parties and only associate with him during work time. But this is not over for Zimmerman I don't believe. I truly believe that the Justice department will continue to look into filing civil rights charges against Zimmerman and that will be a sad day when it happens. I hope it doesn't,
Iowa Medic Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Agreed Captn. What blows my mind is a Hispanic guy shot a black kid and its the white mans fault... How the hell does that work? Forget the litany of talking points that at the very least suggest Zimmerman was not racist those who want to see Zimmerman further prosecuted are conjuring up racial conspiracy theories with the white man pulling the trigger. I believe Zimmerman was a little guy with a wicked hero complex that indeed made a series of poor decisions that lead to the death of TM. I also believe that TM was in no way the sweet little boy the media and race baiters would have you believe and given TMs past texts messages and twitter posts likely started the physical confrontation. With regard to the court case no one being intellectually honest can state Zimmerman should have been found guilty. Further no one being intellectually honest can state racism played any role in this verdict. This is not to minimize the role racism still plays in this and I imagine every culture but for those like Rev All who are hooking their race baiting wagons to the Zimmerman trial are doing the civil rights struggle a great disservice. Why are Jesse Jackson and Rev All not marching in Chicago or the like where 91% of black males were murdered by other black males? Edited July 18, 2013 by Iowa Medic 1
Just Plain Ruff Posted July 18, 2013 Author Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Addressing two points Iowa First is that Intellectual discourse went out of this trial and it's outcome a long time ago And Jesse and Al are not marching on Chicago because it doesn't make the news and isn't going to stir the shit pot. Simple as that(because they can't link the killings back to white on black racism). Simple as that. If they were able to link the murder rate in chicago back to racism then they would be there but they can't. Did you see that on the tails of the governor signing open carry that Chicago has placed new restrictions on over 150 guns in chicago. I believe what I read is that they expanded the list to 150 guns that were now illegal. This was an expounding on the current list. Edited July 18, 2013 by Captain ToHellWithItAll
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