Transported against her will

[Just Plain Ruff]

Someone is going to get in trouble

http://www.azcentral.com/business/call12foraction/articles/20131116air-evac-patient-transport-protests-call12.html?fb_action_ids=10201836308263796&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210201836308263796%22%3A210789485770343%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210201836308263796%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

Sounds like a big huge lawsuit coming down the pike.

[ERDoc]

Wow. Let's start by saying that there is a lot missing in this story. First, why was she restrained to begin with? Second, why are you calling a helicopter for someone with a seizure? Third, informed consent was mentioned, however, if the pt's mental status changes you MUST reassess her. Just because she did not have the capacity to make her own decisions when you got there, doesn't mean she cannot regain that capacity prior to dispo. This sounds like a huge fail on the part of the EMS crew and I hope they are treated appropriately. At least they dropped the bill. It's crazy that the 20 minute helicopter ride cost almost 2.5 times what the overnight hospital stay costs.

EDIT: The company mentions, "We follow state and federal laws and regulations on how and when we transport people,” I didn't know there were federal laws on how and when to transport people. Maybe someone from AZ can tell us if there are state laws.

Edited November 18, 2013 by ERDoc

[Just Plain Ruff]

First off, I would initially refuse to pay the bill until I had all the required info. I'd want to see the supposed "The company mentions, "We follow state and federal laws and regulations on how and when we transport people,” information.

Second, I'd be contacting my attorney for this, I'm wondering which attorney out of the thousands of attorneys in the entire country would want to take this case? I'm sure that there are at least 97% that woudl take this case

And third, I'd be really really pissed.

[mobey]

In Canada we cannot force patients against their alone will under any circumstances. If they are unconscious that is "Implied consent"

If they are refusing but deemed a danger to themselves or others we call police to 'Form 10' them. (Under protective arrest) Then police accompany us to the hospital.

If they are competent, sober and refusing but not a danger - we leave them at home.

Nice part about this system is all the liability lies with the Police (RCMP) and not the EMS crew.

To take a competent sober person against their will here would be kidnapping.

[Just Plain Ruff]

To take a competent sober person against their will here would be kidnapping.

Yep, sounds like they kidnapped her. But again, this is a news story so I'm sure we are just getting only a fractoin of the story but the story was pretty thorough in the reading of it though that I could gather.

[island emt]

Can anyone say OOOOOPPPPPPPSSSS!

We didn't mean to kidnap you against your will.

[paramedicmike]

There's a lot not being reported here. I'm sure what's not being reported is just as important to the entire story as what is reported.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Just leave it to the news media to report what makes the story look the most sensationalistic.

[ERDoc]

Now that the story has been out, there are quite a few interesting comments, including some from the pt. I do like the comment that said, "If they can remember the flight, they probably didn't need it."

[Kiwiology]

Our new rule is basically if you are less than an hour closer to hospital by air than road you should go by road unless the helicopter can bring specific skills you need that will be much faster by air than road (e.g. HEMS Doctor).