Duty to act?

[tmedic67]

Is there a law requiring you to stop at MVA if your empty and out of your jurisdiction?

[island emt]

depends on what state you are in.

Common decency would make one think you would stop and at least offer assistance until the agency having jurisdiction arrived on scene.

[PDXEMT]

I don't believe any state makes an ambulance stop for an accident. Under Duty to Act you need to be dispatched and accept that dispatch or initiate patient care for a Dirty to Act to be in place. Your agency could also have this in their protocols. There is however the Ethical aspect of this. It would look bad for an ambulance that is in service to bypass a medical emergency.

[tmedic67]

I think we all agree with that, but that's not what was asked. The state is Virginia.

I don't believe any state makes an ambulance stop for an accident. Under Duty to Act you need to be dispatched and accept that dispatch or initiate patient care for a Dirty to Act to be in place. Your agency could also have this in their protocols. There is however the Ethical aspect of this. It would look bad for an ambulance that is in service to bypass a medical emergency.

Thanks. This is more of the answer I am looking for. Would like to find the written state law. Any info on this would be helpful.

[Just Plain Ruff]

What does your company say to this? I am assuming that you had this happen to you?

In Missouri, I don't know if there is a law but it's considered bad form not to stop. And you likely will be placed front and center on the news as this headline 'heartless ambulance crew drives by while pregnant female bleeds to death while waiting for local ambulance to arrive" or some other sensationalistic story on the local news. And who needs that on your resume.

[P_Instructor]

If you are on duty, being paid for your services, and come upon an MVC that you could possibly utilize your training, you should have a duty to act. I am not sure what you mean by jurisdiction. Is it the same city? same county? same state?, or different state?

The big thing is that you are driving the biggest, most advanced and star of life emblazed mobile billboard that you can think of. You don't stop, and there may be more problems down the road.

Ahh, rules and standards, morals and ethics.....love it.

[ChanceAndCircumstance]

If there's another unit on scene and I haven't been dispatched to help, I won't stop. I've had that happen to me when I was on a MVA scene. If I roll across an MVA that just happened and there is no one on scene then I'm going to stop. I had that whole golden hour thing pounded in my head, I'll do everything in my protocol allows me to do until additional units arrive.

I was coming home from a class at college and in front of me on the highway I saw a car go across the grass median, and then into some brush in the woods on my side of the road. I have special skills that I have been trained with and can use them (that and I also carry my own jump bag in the car) so I stopped and helped. Law or not I don't think it should be questioned if you should stop to help or not.

That's just my 2¢

[ERDoc]

I had that whole golden hour thing pounded in my head

No, no, no, no. Sorry to derail the thread but I can't let this go. Your instructors suck and have failed you. There is no such thing as the golden hour. It is a myth from the 70s and 80s that still gets passed on today from instructors who don't stay up to date.

I have special skills that I have been trained with and can use them (that and I also carry my own jump bag in the car) so I stopped and helped.

You don't say what level you are but I am going to assume EMT. You do not possess any special skill sets, especially without an ambulance. The only "special skills" that you, I or anyone else on this board can provide is basic first aid and making sure someone has called 911 and even the first aid is optional.

I'm sorry for going off so hard on someone new to the forum but you will learn quickly why I have jumped on you like this. I have probably been much more gentle than some of the others here will be. Don't let that scare you away. Learn from it and continue to contribute. You seem intelligent and are probably open to learning. The fact the you can make coherent, intelligent sentences with no spelling mistakes puts you well above the usual newbies we get, so please stick around.

[ChanceAndCircumstance]

So first aid isn't a special skill? I don't completely agree with that.

It's a special skill set that separates me from the wannabe hero that thinks he has a shot to be featured on the news so he goes and pulls a victim out of a car without proper stabilization. This scenario actually happened by me, the bystander had no reason to remove the victim out of the car. The car was intact, no severe trauma, not like the car was on fire, and the breathing was fine. I would have all the time in the world (not literally) to remove that patient safely without the chance of causing more possible injury to him. This can only be done by being properly instructed about the skill of safely stabilizing a patient and safely removing him or her from a car. Chance is your regular Joe off the street isn't going to know how to perform it or know the dangers. I mean it's surely not rocket science but still something that has to be taught, learned, and then practiced.

I am always open to criticism and judgment, it'll help me learn. I am new to this professional and always willing to learn from people with more skill.

Edited December 3, 2013 by ChanceAndCircumstance

[ERDoc]

You will learn that there are very few people who actually NEED all of the things you describe in your scenario. The whole idea of rapid extrication/KEDs/longboards is being questioned and most studies are showing more harm than good. As a college student, I assume you appreciate the idea of staying current with the literature. The problem is, in most EMS in the US, the instructors have no idea what the literature says and as a result the students learn even less. Do you mind if I ask what state you are in and are you a volley?

As for the golden hour, here is a brief synopsis that you can provide for your instructors:

http://www.jwatch.org/em201003120000003/2010/03/12/golden-hour-myth-or-reality

I was in, shall we a say, a unique area when I did EMS. My instructors were more concerned with teaching us cool sayings like, "hot lights, cold steel" and sharing war stories than they were about teaching us that air goes in and out, blood goes round. There are exceptions, which is how most of us were able to pass.