Finney Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 I would not even begin to suggest that 190 hours is an excessive or unreasonable amount of time to spend learning course material. I was just curious if there were any other states that had alternatives to this 190 hour course. Or if there were other ways to getting the non clinical experience outside of the classroom setting. I will continue to research to see if it is in fact hour based or competency based. But the concern that I have been hearing from Western New York and Upstate New York (Rural areas basically) is that volunteer rates are dropping or will drop soon. I will also look into the training fund reimbursements. Thank you for the quick responses.
uglyEMT Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Well NJ adopted the same requirements last year and do 210 hr courses. The rural volly agencies (yes NJ has rural areas akin to Upstate) made a stink about the added time, cost, yada yada. Nothing happened! Ranks didn't drop except for the folks that didn't want to recert under the new guidlines. The classes are usually booked up when checking the website so new EMT's are certainly happening. Most first time EMT's do not have the option of non classroom learning. After you are certified there are online CEU's available. The whole dropping ranks thing is because those EMT's don't want change and are looking for excuses to keep EMS in the dark ages. Same happened when they required two EMTs on a rig (vs one emt one driver). People don't like change, especially in the Volly world. I still can't understand why folks get upset when hearing courses are only 200 hrs? Guess what, you have it easy and it should not be that way!!! hell hairdressers go through 4 to 5 hundred hours and all they do is cut your hair. They mess up, you have a bad hair week. We mess up you die! But until this mentality of using the lowest common denominator is broken 200 or less hour courses will continue and people will bitch about it being to long or hard.
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Why is it 190 hours, my EMT Class was 440 hours plus 48 hours of ride time and 48 hours of clinical time. 190 hours is simple - you can probably teach a monkey the rote skills needed to do cpr and backboard a patient in 190 hours. So people need to stop complaining about how hard 190 hours are. I'm not saying that Finney is complaining about having to go to class for that many hours but honestly if you look at it, if you are in class for 4 hours anight and your class is held on monday, wednesday and 8 hours on Saturday, that's 16 hours a week and you only will only be in class for 12 weeks. Yeah, god dangit, 12 weeks to become an emt. Seems a little short when you look at the time it takes other entry level careers. Look at pipefitters or electricians they have a lot more time to put in to get certified I believe. And like Island said, you mess up a pipe or drain, unhappy homeowner, you mess up in EMS unhappy family and very happy lawyer. 190 hours is not enough time to have someone's life in your hand if you ask me.
uglyEMT Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Yea Ruff up around these parts is damn scary what little goes into getting your card. it went from 150 hrs to 200 and those 50 extra hrs were to teach BGL and aspirin admin(and trust me it was drama to add them) then you had 10 hrs of ride time OR 10 hrs in an ED. And still, Finney not saying you here, folks are still bitching about how long and hard the course is, how it will mean less providers, and it shouldn't be required to do all that. (3 nights a week, 4 hrs a night, 17 weeks) As my instructor said at graduation, "Congratulations, you now know enough to kill a person." That's my biggest beef about the lowest common denominator style of training. We should be pushing for longer courses not pandering to the those which do not like hard work. This isn't something you should be doing on a whim or to "look good" on a resume. Our screw up can drastically change lives. At least the places I have worked had long probationary periods before letting folks loose on the public, can't say that's every where though.
island emt Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 It is that low because the powers that be decided to try and appease ALL the parties involved. There was no logical reasoning involved in picking that number of hours . That is also the suggested minimum, for the course length, not the mandated maximum. Used to be it was 150 hours + 48 hours clinical time in ER, ICU & ride along time. That was many moons ago with a much smaller scope of practice for BASIC EMT's. In reality , those taking this course curriculum today have just enough basic skills & knowledge to be very dangerous to themselves, their partners and most of all their patients.
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Used to be it was 150 hours + 48 hours clinical time in ER, ICU & ride along time. That was many moons ago with a much smaller scope of practice for BASIC EMT's. Yeah that's what is really scary, the 190 hour course is teaching basics to do more and give more stuff than my 440 hour class taught.
paramedicmike Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I would not even begin to suggest that 190 hours is an excessive or unreasonable amount of time to spend learning course material. I was just curious if there were any other states that had alternatives to this 190 hour course. Or if there were other ways to getting the non clinical experience outside of the classroom setting. I will continue to research to see if it is in fact hour based or competency based. But the concern that I have been hearing from Western New York and Upstate New York (Rural areas basically) is that volunteer rates are dropping or will drop soon. I will also look into the training fund reimbursements. Thank you for the quick responses. You really need a more traditional training program for something like this. There are circumstances when online or distance education work well or are even preferred. Initial EMT training is not one of those circumstances. Again, your focus on the scare tactics associated with either real or imagined drops in volunteers is misguided. It should not be an issue or concern regarding your education.
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 To move the conversation forward, drops in volunteer numbers aside, Can you tell us why you are concerned, if it's due to your wanting to get your EMT and it's a far drive for you to get a class Here's an alternative http://www.percomonline.com/ If you go there you can get zero to hero in less time than Frozone took to find his suit when Syndrome invaded the city in the Incredibles. But if you are a serious education seeker, then a 1.5 hour drive might just be what you have to do.
chbare Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 With all that has been said, is there actually good literature on course length? If we are to mandate 440 hour courses or call out 190 hour courses, do we have the literature and evidence that supports a certain stance?
ERDoc Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 With all that has been said, is there actually good literature on course length? If we are to mandate 440 hour courses or call out 190 hour courses, do we have the literature and evidence that supports a certain stance? Ohh, slippery slope. Is there any literature to support EMS even existing in cases other than early defib, out of hospital cardiac arrest? The trauma literature is pretty dismal.
Recommended Posts