This is driving me nuts

[RseCty]

So I recently interviewed with an ambulance service. They like me, and more or less told me that I have the job as soon as my background clears. I already told them what they would find (minor in possession of alcohol, 2008). The hiring manager basically told me it was not a concern, only possibly with insurance. I'm not worried about clearing the background check.

What I am concerned about is being insurable. The MIP is not on my driving record, is almost 6 years old, and did not cause me any problems with my private auto insurance. I can't imagine why it would cause me any problems. My driving record consists of a no fault accident (no cars totaled, no injuries, no fatalities, no claims) and a "following too close" moving violation from last November. Given how long I've been driving, I consider that pretty good, and my insurance rates are still relatively low given my age. But I have no idea what the insurance requirements are for ambulance drivers.

I figured other EMTs would know more about this kind of thing. Am I uninsurable? I truly apologize for bothering you all with this. This is just such a huge step in my life.

[island emt]

SO like i totally get it:

I'm trying to guess what it is that is freaking you out so much about this.

If you are under 25 and have points on your license, many commercial insurance underwriters are hesitant to cover you.

if you are over 25 a following to closely ticket means you have an increased risk factor documented.

Not talking about major accidents or DWI's here , but any points.

The ambulance company can only do what the insurance carriers tell them.

Let's do a review:

at your young age you have:

an alcohol violation

a property damage accident

a following to closely citation.

That your letting us know about.

Would you feel comfortable putting someone with that on their record behind an emergency vehicle ?????????

[Arctickat]

Would you feel comfortable putting someone with that on their record behind an emergency vehicle ?????????

Especially if he's following too closely.

Don't worry too much about it kiddo. Here's a good assumption you can use. Do your violations result in you paying more for your insurance? If not, then you're insurable. If so, then there are a few options your potential employer can consider:

1. He may just give you a chance because he likes you
2. He may prohibit you from driving until your record is clear.
3. He may prohibit you from driving when a patient is on board or when responding
4. He may place you on an extended probation and if he gets a single complaint about your driving, you're gone.
5. You could offer to pay any additional insurance costs yourself.

[island emt]

that was supposed to say "behind the wheel" of an emergency vehicle

[RseCty]

Well yes, and here's why: I'm a good driver, good enough to operate an ambulance safely. I made a mistake, as people do. I've certainly learned from it and it won't happen again. I don't have a pattern of bad driving, just a single incident. The accident is no fault, so I can deny any wrong doing.

And my rates are relatively low (for my age). I'm 24. The MIP doesn't factor into my rates. I'm trying to understand why it would. Does a possession of alcohol charge imply that I may operate a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol? Might as well hike the rates up on anyone who uses alcohol, ever. Again, no pattern. I've learned from it and it wont happen again.

Well, I think I'm screwed either way. If I can't get hired here, I seriously doubt I could get hired anywhere else. If this fails, I'm going back to school. Accounting maybe? They seem to like me. I'm just crossing my fingers that they'll be able to hire me in the event that my record reflects badly on insurance rates.

Thanks for the replies

Edited March 30, 2014 by RseCty

[Arctickat]

that was supposed to say "behind the wheel" of an emergency vehicle

I know, but you made it too easy.

[paramedicmike]

Well yes, and here's why: I'm a good driver, good enough to operate an ambulance safely. I made a mistake, as people do. I've certainly learned from it and it won't happen again. I don't have a pattern of bad driving, just a single incident. The accident is no fault, so I can deny any wrong doing.

It's not your decision if you're good enough to operate an ambulance safely. That's up to the employer to decide if he trusts you enough.

Your comment also makes it sounds like you were at fault and would be willing to lie about it with the convenient excuse of "it was a no fault accident". Only you know what really happened. I'm guessing that since you mentioned you made a mistake and learned from it then you really were, to some extent, at fault. That you imply that you could then lie about it hiding behind the "no fault" context of the accident is telling.

Whether or not any potential employers would think the same is a different question.

And my rates are relatively low (for my age). I'm 24. The MIP doesn't factor into my rates. I'm trying to understand why it would. Does a possession of alcohol charge imply that I may operate a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol? Might as well hike the rates up on anyone who uses alcohol, ever. Again, no pattern. I've learned from it and it wont happen again.

It's still an alcohol offense. No, it might not have affected your insurance rates for private insurance. Corporate insurance is different. It may very well play a role in determining if you're insurable or not. My observations from my time in the industry is that yes, it will affect your insurability.

It doesn't matter how good a driver you think you are. One accident plus one alcohol offense can, in a corporate insurance setting, demonstrate a pattern of behaviour. Welcome to the big leagues.

Well, I think I'm screwed either way. If I can't get hired here, I seriously doubt I could get hired anywhere else. If this fails, I'm going back to school. Accounting maybe? They seem to like me. I'm just crossing my fingers that they'll be able to hire me in the event that my record reflects badly on insurance rates.

Thanks for the replies

You're not necessarily screwed. However, your comments here raise a lot of questions about you as an individual.

You've mentioned twice that you made a mistake and the offenses won't happen again. With regards to one of the mistakes you're indicating that you would be willing to lie about the incident to cover yourself.

EMS providers are asked into people's homes when they're having a really bad day. Our integrity, character and trustworthiness must be impeccable. Your offenses call into question your integrity, character and trustworthiness. It's one thing to say it'll never happen again. It's something else entirely to demonstrate it.

You've got a lot of work to do.

Edited March 30, 2014 by paramedicmike

[RseCty]

I don't have to sit here and take this. I asked about my insurability, not what you think of me as a person. My integrity is called into question? How many people attend parties where alcohol is served before they are 21? Can you honestly say that you never once touched an alcoholic beverage before you were of age? And can you say that anyone who has doesn't belong in EMS and has bad integrity and can't be trusted? Here's an example: a 19 year old who was in my EMS class has a job with a local fire dept lined up. Through conversation, I learned that while partying isn't really his thing, he has done it. Should he immediately resign his position due to lacking in moral character and integrity?

And I HAVE demonstrated that I learned from my mistakes. What a foolish comment. No subsequent criminal convictions of any kind for the following 6 years shows that. I don't know what else you want from me. If I volunteered in a soup kitchen would that please you? People make mistakes. Get off your high horse, buddy.

And dude, no fault means no fault. It means that I don't have to implicate myself as being at fault. It doesn't mean I'm going to lie. If I don't have to implicate myself, why would I? If they ask, I'll say "no fault." And that's true.

Edited March 30, 2014 by RseCty

[island emt]

SO pull your panties back out of the bunch you've got them in sonny

We get asked this same question many times a year and always by someone "who only did it once and has learned from their mistakes.

The three of us that have answered your question have between us over 100 years of experience in the industry. We have a Paramedic ambulance service owner, A recently retired service chief who dealt with risk management and driver training issues in a 300 truck fleet setting, and a flight Paramedic / PA with wide experience in multiple facets of prehospital care in small & large city settings.

We are telling you what we know from decades of experience in dealing with people who come to us with your application records.

Don't like the truth then you have another issue.

All three of us read your statements the exact same way. If we erred in our conclusions , then maybe an english & grammar course would help you communicate with us in a clearer dimension.

You use the argument that you know of a 19 yo from your class that "has a job lined up with a fire dept." That may be just bragging on his part as fire service interview and background checks are very inclusive including peer panel interviews.

I have sat on those boards and looked at candidates social media exploits.

Gives those in the position to hire lots of easy toss that app in the round file excuse.

Then again that is someone you were in class with not you. shedding blame or diversion of the facts don't change them.

good luck junior. you will need it

Edited March 30, 2014 by island emt

[paramedicmike]

To add to what IslandEMT noted, I've seen 19 year olds get kicked out of services and/or had job offers rescinded for underage drinking without an arrest or conviction. Why? Because it's against the law and, from a professional standpoint, questions their character.

If you didn't mean what you wrote (specifically about your accident, having made mistakes but you learned from them, but it's ok because it was no fault) then why did you write it the way you did? We can only go with what you give us. What you're giving us sounds like you were at fault and you're willing to lie and/or hide behind the "no fault" excuse.

Don't shoot the messengers here. You asked us because, as you stated, you figured we'd know this kind of thing. That you don't like the answers you're getting doesn't mean those answers are wrong.