Faking seizures?

[ERDoc]

You could be right, especially since there are no schools anywhere that have care plans for their students that don't involve calling 911.

[mikeymedic1984]

Hey its like urgent care centers that are not open 24 hours, when in doubt, or if it is time to close, send them to the ER. My mom is a school nurse and treats at least 50 patients a day (meds, diabetics, special needs), but you can bet if there is anything strange going on with a patient she is calling the family or 911. What would be your defense if the patient died ? Lawyer to teacher: Please tell us what medical training you have ? Teacher : I took a CPR class once in 1992. Lawyer: so when my patient started having a seizure, what part of your neurological medical training told you that the patient would be fine, and would not aspirate on their vomit and die ? If you were in a Walmart and saw someone having a seizure, would you not call 911 or at least notify store employees that a medical emergency was occuring ? If your child had a seizure tomorrow, would you set them in the corner and let them sleep for an hour ?

I don't want her to call 911, but absent any further training or agreement with the family, I think she is on dangerous legal grounds if she fails to follow what is the accepted societal norm for the community.

OP, please talk with your school's attorney, and follow whatever advice they give you.

[ERDoc]

OK, so you obviously missed the part where we all agreed that there needs to be a family meeting and a care plan developed with all of the appropriate parties. Try to stay with us.

[mikeymedic1984]

No, I heard you, and in a perfect world that sounds good, but is that a reality ? Not likely with an adult patient. I doubt she will go for it. Whether she does or not, the school stills has a liability issue as of today for this patient or any other. I would still think that following the advice of their attorney is best for them.

[paramedicmike]

Yes. It is a reality. These types of care plans exist in facilities all over the place when there are special considerations to be made regarding individuals with special health needs. They exist in schools, day care centers, long term care facilities... even workplaces. They are put together in conjunction with the individual or responsible family member, the people providing care on site and those responsible for the overall health care management of the person in question. These plans are in place for kids and adults alike.

[scubanurse]

I don't see what her problem would be of having them call 911, have them eval her, and if she's good to refuse, then she can refuse. Liability then falls on the right folks.

[paramedicmike]

Come on. You have a chronic condition. How would you feel if every single time something happened to you someone around you who didn't understand what was going on insisted on calling 911 even if you were completely and totally capable of handling the after effects of such an event?

You'd get annoyed very quickly.

It would also be a waste of resources.

A reasonable care plan put together with the person in question and any necessary parties (PCP, school administration, power of attorney if there is one) that will outline if and when 911 needs to be called is both reasonable and practical. There are times when it may be necessary. There are times when it won't be. There's little need to involve the 911 system every time it happens while this student is in this particular school setting.

[scubanurse]

Is she really having seizures every week? My school did this to me every time a joint would dislocate if someone happened to notice. My RA called an ambulance at least two dozen times when someone who go yelling that I had a dislocation. I very well understand how frustrating having a chronic condition is. I

f she is having seizures so frequently that it would be taxing on the 911 system, then perhaps she needs further medical intervention. A detailed care plan would be ideal, but people will still call 911 who are unaware of that care plan, i.e. walking down the sidewalk out side and has a seizure, people will likely call 911 before they can locate a care plan, read through it, and then decide if 911 is warranted.

Edited December 18, 2014 by scubanurse

[paramedicmike]

I don't see what her problem would be of having them call 911, have them eval her, and if she's good to refuse, then she can refuse. Liability then falls on the right folks.

My school did this to me every time a joint would dislocate if someone happened to notice. My RA called an ambulance at least two dozen times when someone who go yelling that I had a dislocation. I very well understand how frustrating having a chronic condition is.

So you do, in fact, see what this particular student's problem is.

If she is having seizures so frequently that it would be taxing on the 911 system, then perhaps she needs further medical intervention. A detailed care plan would be ideal, but people will still call 911 who are unaware of that care plan, i.e. walking down the sidewalk out side and has a seizure, people will likely call 911 before they can locate a care plan, read through it, and then decide if 911 is warranted.

We're not talking about random people walking down the street. We're talking about people in this particular school who would be dealing with this particular student. We're talking about people who have every day contact with this individual who would be advised of, educated on and kept in the loop regarding any plan as it pertains to any student under their care.

You're really unnecessarily extrapolating this to include the greater public and that falls outside the bounds of where the discussion was limited as it related to the subject in the OP.

[Just Plain Ruff]

We had a cleaning staff member who had seizures every day. She even wore a bike helmet while working so when she went down she didn't hurt her head. She was a cleaner at the hosptial I worked at.

When she had a seizure, the person who found her would put her in a wheelchair, wheel her to the ER, put her in a bed if available, or if she was on a patient floor they would take her to the closest room with a bed and a nurse on the floor would then come into the room she was in and would watch her.

That was her care plan. No medical care was needed for her other than a bed to let her ride out her seizure and then when she was done, she would get up, go back to work and maybe later in the day have another seizure. Easy peasy.

Her care plan was set up with Admin, her doctor and the nursing staff on board.

I never while working on the ambulance had to go get her, seems her care plan extended outside the employment area as well.

That is an example of a well working care plan.