Racist

[triemal04]

Meanwhile Florida Highway Patrol is still trying to figure out what caused the accident and who was behind the wheel. Autopsy results will determine whether alcohol was a factor.

'Bout the most important part of the article. I'm not advocating blame the victim by any means, but the question "how did they end up there and why?" does need to be asked before the finger pointing get's out of control.

Also like to know how deep the "pond" was...how far out the car was...if the people were in/out of the car...you know, minor stuff like that that could maybe explain some of what happened. Not that it's important or anything... :evil:

[AnthonyM83]

Dust, you brought the issue up yourself....honestly I only spent 4-6 seconds skimming that article, but I'm assuming it's about them not saving their kid in time because s/he's black.

But you said it earlier concerning the avatar icon...not you, but is a FF in general, more likely to risk his life for a cute innocent helpless little girl or some ratty bratty looking kid of the same age? The former...I've seen it.

So, is a white FF more likely to risk his life (even risking disciplinary action) for a white kid who reminds him of his daughter or niece or a girl of a different race who he's not that connected to....(and further away from genetically, probably, thus less of a desire to protect, if we're talking evolutionary biology here)

[Asysin2leads]

Personally, I think attributing what a person will do based on their race and not on the individual is pretty darned racist in itself. Not all white folk think alike, ya know, some might save the white kid and some might save the black kid.

[Dustdevil]

Yeah, as I see it this profession is a catch 22!

A few weeks ago I was reprimanded for excessive speed on a code 3 run as I was reported by a concerned citizen. Yesterday I got b!tched at for taking to long to arrive to a call.

Yeah, don't even get me started on that nonsense. :x

So, let's get this straight. We got two drunk guys in a pond. It's dark, so I can't even see them. Pond + Floridia = alligators. And you want my scrawny, fifty year old arse out to swim out there in hopes of eventually finding, and then carrying a guy named "Chubby" -- who is in a panic for his life -- back to shore?

Sorry, Chubs. I'm sure you were a great guy and all. But my mama didn't raise no fool. And, because of that, I owe it to her to stay alive long enough to take care of her in her old age.

Anthony, I'm not sure why you chose not to read the article, but by failing to do so, you completely missed a crucial point. They were not firemonkeys. They were medics. Regardless, I've been to both medic and firemonkey school, and neither one of them covered anything about swimming or water lifesaving. That's why they have special teams for this sort of thing. If we go diving in to pull out every drowning victim, what are those guys going to do with all that useless swift water rescue crap they bought with the Homeland Security grant they got?

But really, this comes down to Day 1 of EMT school. Scene safety. I don't expect my people to play in busy traffic. I don't expect my people to run around during gunfights or riots. And I don't expect my people to jump into open water after a victim, especially with no professional training in the practice. If you do it, you are deviating from the nationally established DOT standard you were taught in EMT school, and nobody is going to back you up on that. If you do this and live, I'll fire you. If you're injured, I'll deny your workers comp claim for disregarding established safety practices, written orders, and working outside of your job description. My insurance premiums are high enough as it is without heros driving them up higher.

[AnthonyM83]

If you do this and live, I'll fire you. If you're injured, I'll deny your workers comp claim for disregarding established safety practices, written orders, and working outside of your job description. My insurance premiums are high enough as it is without heros driving them up higher.

I know this is a stupid question to ask, but I'll go ahead and pull my newbie card...

Do LEGITIMATE incidents like this happen all the time where you'd need to fire people when they risk themselves to save a life in IMMINENT danger. Where if you didn't, person died, right then and there, period. I imagine there are a lot of incidents where whackers do dumb stuff unnecessarily, but it seems like legitimate emergencies like that are a bit more rare...and some leeway might be given to a medic who choses to take a risk. I can't imagine it'd happen often enough to drive insurance rates that high....legitimate cases that is.

[ERDoc]

I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I just read the article Dust posted. I gotta agree with him. There were a bunch of witnesses standing around and they are criticizing the medics for not jumping in? What were they supposed to do when the car was in 15 feet of water? How far out was the car? It was going fast enough to bust through two fences. It must have been a pretty good speed so I'm sure it was out pretty far.

[AnthonyM83]

PS my two previous posts no longer relate to the article, but are rather an offshoot of both the article and the claim that in general there might be an innate biological difference in desire to risk one's life for a person of a different race if doing it for emotional rather than professional purposes (just a thought I had) and then reply to Dust's post about firing risk takers.

Not replying the article in case it seemed like it.

[Capman]

I'm not quite sure what you are looking for Anthony', so I'll jump right to Dust's comment.

He's dead on. The nationally established DOT standard is scene safety, BSI before anything else. Many believe that the patient is number one priority, however we know that the EMT/paramedic is the number one priority. If the scene is not safe (jumping into water without training fits into that description) then that patient must wait. In many locations, including up here in the styx, Violation of that standard will get you the opportunity to apply at Wal-Mart or at least some time off.

John Q. Public will never understand this sort of thing. These black eyes will more than likely be a re-occuring incident.

[Eydawn]

Well, not to sidetrack here... but my friend's EMT-B class in Michigan included water rescues....

Just an FYI! If you don't have it, don't jump in the pond. If you do, it's at your discretion since you're not on the dive team.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Just Plain Ruff]

I'll jump right in. I don't take risks no matter how small they are when I'm working.

If there is a 2 year old in the water that might be different but to go in after 2 guys who I cannot see and don't know where the heck they are, I'm not gonna do it.

I can barely swim to begin with so I'm not gonna go there.

As for the bystanders, they are the same ones bitching and moaning that no-one did anything but they need to reflect and look at their actions.

It's the same thing in Miami right now, there was a guy who got caught breaking into cars. He ran from the cops and jumped in a pond. He got away from the cops by swimming but he didn't get away from the 9 foot alligator aptly named (after the fact) Kojak.

The guy was eaten and most of his body was found at the bottom of the pond.

Folks are questioning the officers response since the guy was seen to be in trouble. But they didn't go in after him because he was black.

I think the reason they didn't go in after him was that there was a 9 foot gator eating him and if they went in then Kojak who supposedly has a nasty disposition would have eaten them too.

I heretofore would like to start an amnesty petition to save Kojak. he's no longer a gator but he's now a law enforcement officer involved in a officer involved eating. He needs to be placed on administrative leave pending an outcome of a investigation into his actions.