Performing execution

[Dustdevil]

Dust, I normally agree with you but you are wrong on the cost. I was putting all the costs together.

I know. And that was my point. You are adding unassociated costs into the punishment equation. All those extra costs you throw in there to tip your scales have nothing to do with punishment, and are therefore irrelevant to the cost analysis of life vs. death. The only people who would utilize those figures are those with a dishonest agenda to sway opinion in a predetermined direction. That may not apply to you, but it certainly applies to those who fed you your figures.

It's simple. In order to debate the costs of punishment, you have to maintain an apples-to-apples comparison. Figuring in unrelated factors invalidates the comparison. That would be like figuring in the cost of gas, speeding tickets and the resulting high insurance rates when telling people the cost of your car payment.

Arguing the costs of the judicial system, while a valid topic for discussion, is a wholly different topic from the costs of punishment. And if you presume to debate the cost effectiveness of the prosecution of capital crimes, then the math is always going to say it's cheaper to let criminals go than to prosecute them, no matter what their ultimate sentence is. Duh!

[AnthonyM83]

I know. And that was my point. You are adding unassociated costs into the punishment equation. All those extra costs you throw in there to tip your scales have nothing to do with punishment, and are therefore irrelevant to the cost analysis of life vs. death. The only people who would utilize those figures are those with a dishonest agenda to sway opinion in a predetermined direction. That may not apply to you, but it certainly applies to those who fed you your figures.

It's simple. In order to debate the costs of punishment, you have to maintain an apples-to-apples comparison. Figuring in unrelated factors invalidates the comparison. That would be like figuring in the cost of gas, speeding tickets and the resulting high insurance rates when telling people the cost of your car payment.

Arguing the costs of the judicial system, while a valid topic for discussion, is a wholly different topic from the costs of punishment. And if you presume to debate the cost effectiveness of the prosecution of capital crimes, then the math is always going to say it's cheaper to let criminals go than to prosecute them, no matter what their ultimate sentence is. Duh!

I believe you do have to include cost of prosecution in this case, because those extra costs are so high and common (pretty much guaranteed to happen). Using your metaphor, I believe it's smart to add in cost of gas and insurance when weighing pros and cons of getting a car and when budgeting.

And while, it might not be cost effective to prosecute anyone at all for most crimes, we continue to do it because monetary cost isn't everything. It's one factor in many things. Another factor would be keeping a sense of order in our country.

In similar fashion, cost of executions is only one factor in whether we should have a death penalty. The reason it's brought up so often, is because it's so much higher in death sentences (even compared to life sentences).

[Dustdevil]

Using your metaphor, I believe it's smart to add in cost of gas and insurance when weighing pros and cons of getting a car and when budgeting.

Absolutely. But that is not what is happening here. We're talking about adding those costs and then telling people that is part of your car payment. It is not. It is an intentionally deceptive statement. It is a lie.

When you intentionally pad your numbers by making an apples to oranges comparison, your entire argument is invalidated.

[Richard B the EMT]

Serial killer Gary Gilmore was executed by the state of Utah, by firing squad. As mentioned, there were seven rifles, six loaded with bullets, the seventh with a blank.

If I recall the reason for that, it was so no one of the seven could claim with any certainty that he actually killed Gilmore, as the weapons were randomly assigned, and any of the seven could have fired either a fatal shot, or the blank.

FYI.

[Asysin2leads]

Except that expert marksmen can tell when they've fired a blank because the barrel is cooler. It's a nice thought, though.

[Guest]

You wouldnt have to tell me twice. If they deserve it, you bet I'd do it.

[Richard B the EMT]

Does anyone from Utah care to contribute with how the firing squad gets selected, following the comment about the gun barrel temperature, firing a bullet versus blank?

[MrsRankin0510]

I voted yes, I'd do it no problem, but as the desert storm chick noted you'll never really know until you've done it. Every martial arts, self defense, or defensive firearms instructor I have ever had or even spoken to has started off with a lecture on preparing yourself with a combat mindset to be able to take life for the sake of your own or your loved ones. It's a rough mental hurtle. If I met some dude in a dark alley there's nothing I wouldn't do to mame, destroy or kill him. Personally I'd rather be on a firing squad or be a headsman simply because it would be wierd to bridge that gap between what I do to save other lives and what I train to preserve my own. So eventhough I voted yes I have to confess that since I've never had to take a life I can't say how I'd react. I hope in a dark alley my conscience leaves and my training kicks in, but similarly I think I would be tempted to do CPR after pushing the button.

[Asysin2leads]

Oh please, combat mindset... whatever, no more Jean-Claude Van Damme movies for you.

The point of the matter is that at some level a central theme of medicine, at whatever level, is to do no harm. The secrets of medicine are passed on with the unspoken rule that the knowledge should never be used to knowingly cause someone's death, which is why I wouldn't participate in it. I hit someone on the head with a cinderblock because their attacking, that's self defense. I use my knowledge of medicine to directly cause someone's demise, that, in my mind is wrong. Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with it.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

A job is a job. I will do it to the best of my personal ability.

If my job is to treat and transport the sick and injured, I will do it, and do it well.

If my job is to serve up some Big Macs at the local Micky'd's...I will do it, and do it well.

If my job is to clean up horsesh*t after the local 4H parade, there will be clean streets.

And if my job is to administer a fatal dose of methyl-ethyl death...i'd do that too...

Would I take that job in the first place? Id clean up aforementioned horsesh*t if you paid me enough...

But thats just me. PRPG