Increasing Education from a perspective of system management

[Dustdevil]

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of response to this thread...

If you haven't noticed the pattern, this pretty well happens everytime you post one of your six-foot long cut-n-paste jobs (which are usually also copyright violations) into a thread. People decide it's too long and tedious to read and they abandon the thread. Actually, I thought you were doing it on purpose to kill threads you didn't care for.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Haven't heard response form mine.... of course this is holiday week too... & we know how those Gov'.t employees are :wink:

Be safe,

R/R 911

Mine either....im figuring sometime around July 4th next year...

[Dustdevil]

Now announce nationwide to existing EMT-B's in 2005 that they must upgrade to and maintain EMT-I by 2009 and see how many downgrade to first responder or drop their EMS certification altogether rather than take on responsibility for more training.

Wow. Sounds like a really dedicated bunch of professionals to me. Definitely the sort of wankers I want working on my mother or child. :?

Seriously think about how eliminating EMT-B's through forced upgrades to EMT-I would gut volunteerism and essentially cripple delivery of EMS services in rural areas.

That's exactly the point. To up the ante. To price EMS out of the budget of wankers and make it a professional service of value and worth that people understand they have to pay for.

There's already enough trouble maintaining the status quo.

I wish that were true. Unfortunately, the status quo has not wavered in over thirty years. That is why we are still having this debate.

Using numbers from 1993, imagine if 10% of those 506,000 EMT-B's decided to downgrade to first responder or drop EMT-B completely. That's 50,600 EMT-Basics off the street. Talk about sudden impact - that's 25,300 ambulances idled instead of running calls.

Okay, suddenly you are no longer talking about rural volunteers and first responders anymore. Now you're talking about EMS at large. First of all, less than half of those Bs are actually in EMS, so whatever they do or don't do is of no consequence to the profession. Those who downgrade to first responder will be out of a job. And if the job meant so little to them that they would do that, then good riddance. I am very happy to see them go. And again, that is the very point of elevating the profession. To get rid of those whose heart and soul isn't in the profession and create a professional atmosphere that will attract and retain people of intelligence and commitment to EMS.

It ain't rocket surgery. You gotta break a few eggs to make fruit salad. :wink:

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Wow. Sounds like a really dedicated bunch of professionals to me. Definitely the sort of wankers I want working on my mother or child. :?

That's exactly the point. To up the ante. To price EMS out of the budget of wankers and make it a professional service of value and worth that people understand they have to pay for.

I wish that were true. Unfortunately, the status quo has not wavered in over thirty years. That is why we are still having this debate.

Okay, suddenly you are no longer talking about rural volunteers and first responders anymore. Now you're talking about EMS at large. First of all, less than half of those Bs are actually in EMS, so whatever they do or don't do is of no consequence to the profession. Those who downgrade to first responder will be out of a job. And if the job meant so little to them that they would do that, then good riddance. I am very happy to see them go. And again, that is the very point of elevating the profession. To get rid of those whose heart and soul isn't in the profession and create a professional atmosphere that will attract and retain people of intelligence and commitment to EMS.

It ain't rocket surgery. You gotta break a few eggs to make fruit salad. :wink:

Were still short on eggs to begin with...there needs to be a huge recruiting push before you start "cracking eggs"

[Dustdevil]

Were still short on eggs to begin with...there needs to be a huge recruiting push before you start "cracking eggs"

I agree with the shortage. The numbers don't lie. But recruiting is nothing but smoke and mirrors if you aren't offering a real career opportunity to people. If this was a rewarding career with stability and mobility, we wouldn't have to recruit so aggressively. Every EMT and Paramedic school in the country is full to capacity right now, so we know that people want to be in EMS. Now we have to focus on making it attractive to the right kinds of people. People who are mature and career minded, not those who are looking for the excitement of lights and sirens. That wears off really fast. And that is why we are left with a shortage. Because beyond the lights and sirens and flashy uniforms, we really have very little else to offer people. That has to change. And any slick marketing campaign is nothing more than lipstick on a pig until it does.

[Nate]

If you haven't noticed the pattern, this pretty well happens everytime you post one of your six-foot long cut-n-paste jobs (which are usually also copyright violations) into a thread. People decide it's too long and tedious to read and they abandon the thread. Actually, I thought you were doing it on purpose to kill threads you didn't care for.

I'll admit I usually don't read the article, I wait for someone to cliff it.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I agree with the shortage. The numbers don't lie. But recruiting is nothing but smoke and mirrors if you aren't offering a real career opportunity to people. If this was a rewarding career with stability and mobility, we wouldn't have to recruit so aggressively. Every EMT and Paramedic school in the country is full to capacity right now, so we know that people want to be in EMS. Now we have to focus on making it attractive to the right kinds of people. People who are mature and career minded, not those who are looking for the excitement of lights and sirens. That wears off really fast. And that is why we are left with a shortage. Because beyond the lights and sirens and flashy uniforms, we really have very little else to offer people. That has to change. And any slick marketing campaign is nothing more than lipstick on a pig until it does.

You can fill any school to capacity with the rejects of society, but you can always get them to pass. This gets back into a quality of education issue....

[Nate]

The problem with these rejects in school and them not passing is that soon the school is forced to lower its standards in order to keep a good passing rate. Schools hate to lose accrediation as well as negative publicity. Sometimes it is easier for them to "slide" a few through instead of dealing with the problem.

My college found it better to slide us through a four week speech class instead of face a lawsuit...go figure everyone got an A in the class too. (Which is one of the reasons why I transfered out.)

[Ace844]

If you haven't noticed the pattern, this pretty well happens everytime you post one of your six-foot long cut-n-paste jobs (which are usually also copyright violations) into a thread. People decide it's too long and tedious to read and they abandon the thread. Actually, I thought you were doing it on purpose to kill threads you didn't care for.

"Dust,"

Your right...silly me, I'd hate to provide people with information from which they stand to benefit and learn from... I'm sure there is no one here who learned anything from my post. Although I am also quite sure that the majority of people here haven't the slightest clue what their medical director does, how he could help with this problem, or even what he was meant to handle...If you don't like it..scroll on past, but there may be others who could utilize that info to their benefit. So why not support the attempt at education, as you claim to be a proponent of it? Or aren't you? Perhaps you just enjoy throwing insults and being part of the problem rather than offering a viable solution to it.. :wink: :roll: :shock: :!: :arrow:

out here,

Ace844

[AnthonyM83]

How do we make EMTB job attractive to someone career minded?

Will the job change if the EMTB has to have an associate's degree? How will that attractiveness come?