Increasing Education from a perspective of system management

[Ridryder 911]

:protest:

Actually there are 70% in 35 states has formal Paramedic training. This does not always include degree training or of those might be with associated business or vo-tech Paramedic programs that one might be able to transfer credit to a degree program later. ( * source U.S. EMS Survey 2003) http://www.emspi.org/Downloads/pdf/Rural_I..._EMS_Survey.pdf

Please be reminded when comparing with Physical Therapist, they usually require a master degree level for therapist entry level and only allow a few in programs (fewer allowed than in medical school). Competition is fierce as well. They too have a lower level technician ( physical therapy aide/ associate degree level).

I believe most are missing the main point... money $$$ As long as EMS only receiving up to 80% of reimbursement and with collection of average <70-80%, there will never be high salary either. If the money does not come in ... it will never go out.

Government supplemental programs will never work and and with recent government cuts, I am sure EMS will not be receiving an increase but a decrease. Again, a re-vamp of the whole EMS system needs to occur. But, I doubt it will.

Most of the true successful EMS financier's "will see that the pie is never cut" ...Keeping EMS managers ignorant in billing, coding, even keeping medics ignorant only saves money. Cold hard fact, but true.. Until we as a business, are able to truly recruit and supplement those who know how to manage health care and business, things will never change.

But us as practitioners must also learn a few business things as well. Just as physician's had to suddenly change gears & start learning proper documentation to receive appropriate reimbursement and to be open to change certain treatment routines as well. Most medics do not give a damn on the financial aspect of the business. Compare this with the attitude of physicians & yes even the physical therapist. They get the picture...unless you know the rules of the game and learn how to use it.... you can never win at it!

Again, this all goes hand in hand... increasing our knowledge (medical and general education) to be able have a bargaining factor as well, along with major a revamp of the whole system. I doubt this to change soon, there is too many making money on the way it is. And most medics really don't give a damn.. if they did they would had changed it.

One way to change is by ensuring proper documentation is occurring so that the proper reimbursement can be achieved. It is then has to be properly coded. Money will never float down to the medics side until we fix the top..... as most older medics know, the top never cuts themselves. The bottom of the pool always get the ax first....

Unfortunately, I have seen most medics have a couple of similarities.... their ego and apathy... 2 amazing things... ](*,)

For ones who are supposed to care so much for the "people"... can they justify maintaining a failing EMS system to the public? Is this not really a form of negligence to ourselves & our patients in about way ?

Again, I'll stick my neck out... look at the posters that will reply... it will be basically the same ones... why? Because again, most EMT's really don't care about EMS...not enough to participate in change, write to State EMS Directors, lobby for EMS bills, or even study current events. Most are really stupid in about their profession....which is why we are in the situation we are in ...!

My $1.00 worth....

R/R 911

[UMSTUDENT]

I myself am someone seeking a 4-year Bachelor of Science degree to become a Paramedic. I won't say where as I'm not here to get on a soap-box about quality of education, etc. My biggest point is that there are people out there, quite a few actually, who do seek a higher level of knowledge about their field. I go to school with people from all over the world who have come to obtain a very unique degree (Japan, Middle East, multiple regions of the U.S.).

I've had to defend my choice of majors to almost everyone I've ever come in contact with.

"Why didn't you go into nursing?"

"Are you still looking at medical school?"

"I'm not sure if I want you training in a profession with that much risk."

I'm lucky I have people supporting me in my decision, especially because I believe there is a professional future for the field of EMS. I think a lot of the public health problems facing our nation could be solved by our "profession." It just requires more respect and more legitimacy among the "other" health professionals. I look forward to the day that more schools offer advanced degrees in EMS. It's unfortunate that so many of us have to get graduate degrees in "related" specialties to gain respect in the community. There should be Ph.D programs in our field...

The fact of the matter is that most of this country sees paramedics as sub-professionals. That most likely won't stop happening until we can walk into people's homes as degree holding professionals. I personally believe that a minimum of an Associates degree should be required for a Paramedic and more Bachelor level programs should be started.

[pmedic623]

:protest:

One way to change is by ensuring proper documentation is occurring so that the proper reimbursement can be achieved. It is then has to be properly coded.

Rid very good post just wanted to hone in on this part. I constantly here medics complain about being told "how to write their trip sheets" when management tries to give us examples of what language to use which is in no way harming the way me or anyone else writes our tickets. The key being proper documentation, which in time past seemed to be a problem for some but now with new computerized box check systems this is alleviated some. Very good points in your post and I to am sick of people who do nothing for advancing their careers or EMS in general.... (leaves room to find a few people who need to read this!).....

[Dustdevil]

Paramedics are starting to earn decent money because you can't get a paramedic license in six months anymore. Nearly every paramedic program in the country is now a two-year, associates degree program.

Unfortunately, that is not even close to being true for Texas. Wham-bam programs abound here, and are of course highly sought after by the majority of paramedic wannabes. I certainly share your desire to see the entry level set much higher though.

And I salute the remainder of your post. Again, it is simply absurd that our entry level standard should be less than half that of the guy who sits and shoots x-rays or runs urine tests all day. No wonder we are the laughing stock of healthcare.

[Ridryder 911]

Insult to injury.......as my partner and I was getting our order from Wendy's the mgr. was making small chat.. (we were hoping for discount ...lol) he discussed he used to be a Paramedic for 9 yrs (really was) stated he could not afford it anymore..... wow! as he asked if we wanted fries with that .....

be safe,

R/R 911

[pyroknight]

Unless and until they change the laws to allow US to refuse care to the patients, EMS will continue, now and forever, to be a LOSER financially. You can bill until you run out of paper, toner, and skin on the pads of your fingers, but if your patients are unwilling or unable to pay, you will not receive compensation. You are right in that government subsidies will not solve the problem.

I am not at all sure that allowing us to refuse certain patients would be a bad idea. Certainly having alternate transport destinations besides the overcrowded emergency room would be a good idea. Our health care system is in a state that is damn near crisis. Someone is going to have to come up with some creative alternatives before the patients who really need our care start dying because of the cracks in the system.

[Ace844]

Hi All,

While doing some research for a response to another thread I found this study which has some great points and infa-structure realted things to this discussion. If you're interested, look here::: Memphis EMS assessment '05

[Nate]

Unfortunately, that is not even close to being true for Texas. Wham-bam programs abound here, and are of course highly sought after by the majority of paramedic wannabes. I certainly share your desire to see the entry level set much higher though.

Well things are changing, NR is starting to make it harder on those "schools" to keep their doors open, employeers are starting to hire from select schools (we are that way).

[Ace844]

Here's some cross posted links which have to do with this discussion....

Enjoy,

ACE844

http://www.jephc.com/full_article.cfm?content_id=337

http://www.jephc.com/full_article.cfm?content_id=356

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...i_90987569/pg_3

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Rid...

At the 13 month mark, no response from mine either.