Should deaf people be allowed to be EMT'S or Medics

[emt3225]

This might come as a shock to some people, but EMS does involve a little more than lung sounds and hearing BPs. If the deaf person can perform the other aspects of the job, then I wouldn't care if he or she was working on me. I know plenty of people who have no problem seeing, no problem hearing, no problem with any other physical aspect of the job but are beyond inept and still allowed to perform the job. I guess it all comes down to the individual for me.

Devin

I have to say i think being able to listen to lung sounds and getting a BP is very important..Most drugs before u can administer to a pt requires that you have a BP..Soo i really think if someone is deaf or HOH then they need to find some other type of work that isnt really dealing with people that need medical attention..

[Ridryder 911]

I guess I will have to change my mind on allowing deaf people....obviously after reading some of the post, it has convinced me we already allow anacephalics...

Be safe,

R/R 911

[Alcomedicism]

Sorry to burst bubbles even more but yes there are folks in EMS that do wear hearing aids - they simply either use an electric stethoscpe with a headphone type earpiece and the sounds in the scope can be raised and played back.

And as for my hearing - VS over the years I have learned various ways to adjust.

Heres an example - I playe varsity basketball for 3 years, while communication time is short to call out plays, I quickly learned to pay attention to my point gaurd and my coach on the side line to know what play we were running. Alot of times they would use hand signals for plays. As for hearing the refs whistles and calls, I heard them just fine because I learned to tune in on them.

As for learning to get lung sounds and BPs through the scope - I simply had a friend drive around on gravel roads, while I did mock asessments on another friend, after a while I learned to:

1. Put my knee next to the pt, place my hand face up on the knee, then place the patients arm on my hand, then I took a BP, my leg and hand absorbed most of the background vibrations. I was able to take BPs and do pt asessments in the rig just fine.

2. Learned to tune in on lung sounds and ignore the background noise.

3. place the earpiece in my good ear correctly as possible so that I may listen accurately.

And BTW if you cant handle the internships and clinicals, you cant handle EMS period.

And I learned to look at my patient, read their lips, watch their body language, and actually touch my patient to further my asessment.

AND get this how many of you have experience diminished haring after working for years under the sirens?? Think about it, if your hearing is less than 100% would you be working EMS?? You never know until you get tested and Im sure alot of you would be surprised at what rate you are hearing.

Yes there are ways to reasonably accomadate to the hearing impaired, but if it goes beyond reasonable to the point that there needs to be a third person doing the job of the said EMT/Medic, then thats when you know that the person in question cannot reasonably perform the duties of EMT or Medic.

Most people that know me, also do not know that Im deaf in one ear. For some of these folks its best that they dont know, and for some they should know.

And VS - I am no way drawing any disability benefits whatsoever, so no I am not legally deaf or otherwise disabled. I plan on pursuing my dream, and should it ever get to the point to where my hearing has become questionable, then I know it is time for me to move on.

I was mainstreamed in school, never once did I ever set foot in a special education course or class room. I simply sat on the first or second row and made sure I paid attention. I was an honor student.

I never once mentioned to my EMT instructor that I was deaf, that would have sent me packing in no time. I never ask for special favors because of my "disability". Am I the first deaf EMT in AR? Possibly, but Im not about to flag it around as it could hinder my possibilites of working in the state. I work just as hard as the next guy.

-alcomedicism

[akflightmedic]

I am proud of your accomplishments and adaptabillity to your situation. Now I must play devil's advocate...

What happens the one time you miss something? You totally miss some critical assessment or intervention due to your hearing not being up to snuff that day. You have a sinus infection and your ears are worse than normal or you just plain miss something. Who is liable? You are... for deceiving everyone by hiding the fact from your employers, coworkers and most importantly your patients. But in this sue happy world, the employer would also be held just as responsible for not administering a hearing test during the employment process. In the few states where I have been licensed, it is standard practice to gain admission to the EMT schools first and to most emplyers to complete a full hearing assessment along with vision and medical tests. The testing process serves a dual purpose, same as our back screening and hepatitis screen. It serves as a baseline for you upopn entering the career. Who is to say 10 years from now you may get a wild hair up your butt and decide to sue your employer for hearing loss incurred on the job. How can he defend himself? He can't cause he never established a baseline. But this screenig also protects you as an employee, vice versa.

What if we were working a wreck on the side of a highway and a car careens out of control and is heading for you. I shout, telling you to move but you dont hear me because you have learned to tune out background noise in order to serve your patient. This scenario happens a lot, I have the videos to prove it.

I could sit here and come up with many safety and situational awareness scenarios where limited or no hearing could be a major hinderance for you AND your partner. Remember, just because you are willing to compromise your safety to do what you love, does not mean your partner should as well. It isn't all about you and equal rights...

[vs-eh?]

I never once mentioned to my EMT instructor that I was deaf, that would have sent me packing in no time. I never ask for special favors because of my "disability". Am I the first deaf EMT in AR? Possibly, but Im not about to flag it around as it could hinder my possibilites of working in the state. I work just as hard as the next guy.

That statement, along with what both AK and myself mentioned about standards of pre-service baseline testing for insurance purposes may unfortunately limit you in being hired in this field. This isn't a bash on you, it is also in reference to the initial poster and how their service could possibly allow a deaf person to work with them. The liability would be huge, especially in sue happy America.

IMHO there would be no way a person could "pass" a standard hearing test given the extent of loss that you mentioned. You even state that you are "deaf".

And before anybody uses the analogy of corrected hearing loss vs. corrected vision, sorry...As I said, I think most people would agree, those who wear glasses/contacts are not analogous as to those that wear hearing aids.

[Dustdevil]

IMHO there would be no way a person could "pass" a standard hearing test given the extent of loss that you mentioned. You even state that you are "deaf".

Remember, VS, even though the City of Toronto may, most employers - here or there - do not require that in-depth of a physical exam for employees. But also remember before you get too long winded about our inadequacies, almost every employer here does test for drug abuse, unlike there. I'll take a hearing impaired partner over a strung out partner anyday.

[Alcomedicism]

AK,

I see where you are coming from and I do understand your concerns for safety of everyone on-scene.

For one- I can feel the vibration of the car, and two a loud screech in the background would make anyone jump.

As for sue happy world world - no I would never sue my employer doing so would one- make it that much harder for the deaf to get jobs, even low-paying next to do nothing jobs. And two yes I understand that I am taking quite a risk with everyone involved, no I wouldnt hide my hearing-impairment from my emplyoyer, but I wouldnt outright just walk up to them and say - oh by the way Im deaf! That would send me packing quicker than shit. But if they ask me about it, then no I wouldnt lie about it either. I would simply say, yes I am hard of hearing at times, but not deaf.

As for having sinus problems, and such, I think everyone has days like there where their own hearing isnt up to par. So could you be held liable if you missed something critical if you were having sinus congestion that day? Everyone should be held liable for missing a critical element in their asessments. Shoot Im sure there are days your congested enough that even you have trouble hearing.

And VS-

As for eyeglasses they correct a persons vision by using lenses shaped a certain way or to a certain thickness, they do not actually cure the problem they correct it. It is the same with hearing aids, and now more recently cochlear implants that have given the deaf hearing.

If I were to someday afford the cochlear implant, I would gladly have it done, but until that day happens I will adjust and press on. Maybe one day you will work with an EMT/Medic that has a cochlear implant and maybe you'll change your mind.

Im not advocating for equal rights, what about a person with an amputated hand or the aforementioned midget? Yes they may be able to know the books front to back and back to front, but due to their circumstances they could not make the needed adjustments to adquately perform their duties, I however can and have made those adjustments as needed without outside accomodations.

Please dont boot me out of EMS because I have less than normal hearing, I do hope to one day acheive my dreams and goals and make something of myself. Just because I am hard of hearing shouldnt mean I have to work undesireable jobs or even low-wage jobs for the rest of my life.

Again, hard of hearing and deaf are two different things, its best to not get them confused.

-Alcomedicism

[akflightmedic]

For one- I can feel the vibration of the car, and two a loud screech in the background would make anyone jump.

WOW, not debating the extra senses of the hearing impaired but holy cow...How do you function feeling all those vibrations all the time. Very Impressive. Some women would never leave the house if they had that ability. To say you on a scene of a MVC and while tending to your patient, you can feel the vibrations of an approaching vehicle...How are you going to know if it is coming towards you or not? There are cars zooming by every second, seems like you would be looking around more than tending to your patient. As for the screeching of brakes, again I say I have video where there are collisions and the brakes are never touched until after the collision.

As for sue happy world world - no I would never sue my employer doing so would one- make it that much harder for the deaf to get jobs, even low-paying next to do nothing jobs. And two yes I understand that I am taking quite a risk with everyone involved, no I wouldnt hide my hearing-impairment from my emplyoyer, but I wouldnt outright just walk up to them and say - oh by the way Im deaf!

You never know what you might do until you are in that situation. I have done things I thought I would never do until forced to do so by life's curve balls. And not singling you out, but if an employer allows for one, he must allow for all...therefore an employer should set the precedent of standarized pre employment hearing exams. You state you wouldnt hide it, but you wont come up and volunteer unless asked. You are contradicting yourself. You have an obligation to let your employer know of anything that may inhibit your work which directly involves patient care. We are talking about people's lives..yours, your partners, patients, employers business when he or you get sued, etc. By remaining silent about your condition, you are in effect, LYING to your employer. I know it is a standard question on most applications that says "Do you have any disabilities that may hinder your ability to perform the work or duties..blah blah blah"...if you answer that dishonestly, and they find out later, they can terminate you. So , now do you sue, since you lied and are out of a job and the rent is due, your kid needs food, etc...

As for having sinus problems, and such, I think everyone has days like there where their own hearing isnt up to par. So could you be held liable if you missed something critical if you were having sinus congestion that day? Everyone should be held liable for missing a critical element in their asessments. Shoot Im sure there are days your congested enough that even you have trouble hearing.

As a matter of fact, YES. If I mss something due to an illness, I am still just as accountable as if I didnt have the illness. If I come to work, I am telling my employer that I am fit for duty that day and I have no problems performing my job. Illness is no excuse for missing a critical assessment. In fact, the county I used to work for in Florida, had it in our contract...It was a punishable offense to show up for work ill...you hear that? They wanted us to call out if we didn't feel up to par. If you came to work sick, you could and would be written up and sent home.

As for the comparison to glasses and deafness, no comparison...

You have gone back and forth in your argument about hearing imparied(deaf) and hard of hearing. Yes there is a difference. This post started about a DEAF person, not hard of hearing. You have called yourself deaf and hard of hearing. Which are you? Regardless of which, I am in favor of preemployment screenings which is quite the standard in most progressive departments.

[rat115]

I would point out that there's a different in deaf and having a hearing loss or hearing imparement. I've lost about 10% of the hearing in my right ear because of working on a saw at a manufacturing facility that I used to work at. I listen with my left ear when I'm taking a BP or listening to lung sounds.

Even for those who are considered having enough of a loss to need hearing aids there may be so little loss that the only way you can tell is if the person tells you. Myeldset son has bilat hearing aids, he only has problems with b-d and v-z when he's in noisey situations and has learned to tell the word from the content of the sentence sorrounding the work and he's only 10.

I don't think it is a good idea for someone who's truely deaf to be out in the field because the need to hear is so important. It could make things more dangerous for the person and those around the person.

[Ridryder 911]

Okay, i am for ADA and all that stuff when applicable. So I think, we should having deaf EMT's work in radio dispatch, the blind EMT's be strictly assigned as EVO, and the bi-lat amputee with prosthetic "hook" arms be responsible for starting I.V.'s and placing urinary catheters in place as well, ...

For those who actually are deaf (although there is not a legal definition of deafness as compared with blindness) I'll use the standard definition "can not hear"... The U.S. Department of Labor, definition of EMT :These workers risk noise-induced hearing loss from sirens and back injuries from lifting patients. In addition, EMTs and paramedics may be exposed to diseases such as hepatitis-B and AIDS, as well as violence from drug overdose victims or mentally unstable patients. The work is not only physically strenuous, but can be stressful, sometimes involving life-or-death situations and suffering patients. Nonetheless, many people find the work exciting and challenging and enjoy the opportunity to help others. furthermore..........

EMTs and paramedics should be emotionally stable, have good dexterity, agility, and physical coordination, and be able to lift and carry heavy loads. They also need good eyesight (corrective lenses may be used) with accurate color vision

So we can conclude that they are responsible for the patient assessment using verbal communication techniques, visual examination, tactile examination and comprehension and interpretation of those findings.

Shame on the EMS directors that disallows adherence of qualifications. What is next? Again, I not against physically challenged or impairment, just certain jobs require senses... i.e a micro lab tech has to see... etc.. can we adapt special programs for those with disabilities .. you bet and should we .. definitely yes...

Be safe,

R/R 911