Are personal faith and medical care compatiable?

[Ridryder 911]

Maybe with life experiences, one can change an opinion. Hopefully, you really don't think you actually make the difference or really save lives. This is the naivete's I have seen with new & younger medics... Tragedies will always occur.. God did not say they would not, yet, tragedies in our eyes may not be through His.

Miracles do happen.. from the EMT that had a successful code that barely passed his class, to the major MVC without any injuries.. it is all in the interpretation.

As far as in embarrassment, I would find it far more embarrassing to presume someone that took a couple hundred hour course presumes that they actually saved them....

Be safe,

R/R 911

[Just Plain Ruff]

On the subject of treating people from different religious beliefs.

In palestine, the pallestinean ambulance authority treats everyone that needs help. The Israeli ambulance service also treats everyone that needs it.

So if those two diametrically opposed religions can treat each other in a crisis then I can't imagine why we are discussing this in our forums. For two religious groups to be so vehemently opposed to each other yet treat the enemy should be a basis on how we do our work.

Michael

[Just Plain Ruff]

Benanzo, I don't agree with you.

Sure we have free will. Sure it's god's will that things happen.

Not sure exactly what you believe but I considered working in EMS as my god given talent and I always knew that no matter what I did, The final authority was God's, IF I saved some guy then it was thru god's grace that I did, If I did not then it was that person's time to go.

I'm not defying God's will, he is the one who guides my hand.

I do believe one thing you said, it's not our place to minister to someone in the ambulance unless that patient asks me to pray with them. I will do that. I did carry a bible with me on the ambulance. I worked with my pastor to highlight certain books and versus that would be relevant to injury and illness.

But it does not make them look silly or stupid if they do minister to patients. Your opinion of course but not mine.

[benanzo]

I don't feel like I save anybody. If they're going to die, they will die, if not, they don't. It's only a matter of applying science to various degrees in order to influence the outcome of an event. I shouldn't speak of God and Satan in such terms, sorry for that (isn't it reasons like that that the muslims are rioting nowadays???) The fact is I'm atheist now but have grown up in strict quaker setting, so i know the ideas and methods of religious people. Sometimes I have the tendancy to take on a religious tone in order to maximize the effect of bashing it. I often confuse people when I denounce God and the Devil by talking as if I actually believe in any of it (God, that is.) I do have a narrow belief which can and often does make me feel shallow and insecure but at the same time I am not willing to accept a system that makes no sense to me. I can't rationalize God's integration of our freewill and His omnipotence. If humans are free, that means they are free to beat and torchure children, which we all know happens all the time. And if God is all powerful, that means he could stop it anytime...why doesn't He? Well, you could say that that was God's Plan (for that child to be born to abusers???weird plan) or you could say that whatever happens happens happens and you'd better fess up by the time you die...or...we really don't have control and it's all a setup. I don't know...it doesn't make sense, therefore, I don't believe in any of it. Doesn't it say in the bible definitively that when the rapture comes there will be people who go against God??? How's that? I thought we had free will? If free will were possible that would mean that it's possible (but highly unlikely) for EVERYONE to side with God. The fact is, the Bible was written by scared humans who had to invent a dismal scenario for the end times to perpetuate the peoples' fear of going against God so as to gain more momentum in their religious movement, thus, more tithings. But even then, John didn't want money. He was just a little crazy. He was probably the craziest of all. I like Jesus' teachings though, they beat the heck out of any other doctrine around. But even he lost faith for a second and questioned God when his fate was sealed on the cross. I do respect religious implementations into family life. I think that when it's applied in moderation, people can grow up to be very good, wholesome citizens who wouldn't beat their kids or skip their taxes. I just don't like it when fanatical ideas extend their sticky hands toward mine.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I agree with some of what you are saying but when you say you do not like fanatical beliefs to extend to your hand unfortunately, and I say this not to discount nor to be argumentative but it is a two way street. You cannot extend your fanatical beliefs to others either.

I do believe that with you having no beliefs and are a self professed atheist that your beliefs in and among themselves are fanatical. Not trying to put your views down but I do believe that Atheism is a fanatical belief.

I don't know what went on in your life to get you to that point and I respect your views of atheism but that is not what I believe. I consider myself a religious moderate, I would never shove my beliefs down anyones throat and I expect that the same courtesy is extended to me.

There are too many crackpots out there that take both ends to the extreme.

As long as we can have a healthy debate along this subject then all is well and good but the moment it gets to be too intense then we step back and in the immortal words of R.K. "Can't we all just get along"

I don't understand the current uproar of the muslim world about these cartoons but then again I'm not muslim.

It all comes back to tolerance but some people are not tolerant towards anyone but themselves.

I've got a headache so I'll close here yet if you want we can debate this more later either in PM's or via chat or IM

I'm always on in Yahoo IM ultramone@yahoo.com

[Michael]

On the subject of treating people from different religious beliefs.

In palestine, the pallestinean ambulance authority treats everyone that needs help. The Israeli ambulance service also treats everyone that needs it.

So if those two diametrically opposed religions can treat each other in a crisis then I can't imagine why we are discussing this in our forums. For two religious groups to be so vehemently opposed to each other yet treat the enemy should be a basis on how we do our work.

Michael

Hey Ruffens --

Did you intend to take my name in vain here?

(The Real) Michael

cc via PM, as per request above

[benanzo]

I am more than willing to have comfortable debate about this, in fact, I wouldn't have it any other way. I can understand how atheism can be seen as fanatical. But I'm not fanatical. I prefer to mind my own business when it comes to religious issues, especially involving work. If a patient specifically asks me to pray with them I will happily go through the motions. I would not discount their efforts to make their situation better, or be perceived to be better, in any way. My beef arises when the reverse is the case. I like the example of the pharmacist not giving contraceptives because it contradicted his religious beliefs. The last time I checked, pharmacists' licenses were awarded (as a priviledge) by the state authority requiring them to abide by the terms of that authority. That authority is funded by the state's tax-payers. I assume the seeker of that medication was a state tax-payer. If I were that tax-payer, I would confidently, and happily, sue the pants off that pharmacist, after buying my meds somewhere else. If I were that pharmacist, I would either fill the script and beg for forgiveness, or just spend the rest of my life in a cave with God.

[Ridryder 911]

That is what the law suit is about they were following the law.. they did have the right to refuse. The same as Catholic or Religious institutions or hospital based. Again, the dilemma was it was not a life threatening illness or injury, the same way our ER does not dispense the med as well.

Be safe,

R/R 911

[Dustdevil]

I'm thinking about approaching our medical director about adding exorcisms to our protocols.

Is anybody out there doing these? If so, can you send me your protocols?

SPELL CHECKED: No errors found 8)

[pmedic623]

I'm thinking about approaching our medical director about adding exorcisms to our protocols.

Is anybody out there doing these? If so, can you send me your protocols?

SPELL CHECKED: No errors found 8)

Jesus, please cast the Devil out of Dust :evil: :angel12:.....nope didn't take