Christianity in EMS...

[PCTtiff]

Hello Michael,

I said ‘just this once’ last time, but I guess I’ll address this mainly to you ‘once’ again.

I agree with you whole-heartedly on one thing, you have unusual commitment. I’m trying to understand why. Do you find someone in me that you like to debate with or do you simply enjoy trying to fluster me? Have you accomplished what your goal was?

Reading and re-reading your last reply, I realize, by your contrasting statements, that there is nothing I can say that will satisfy you. One sentence you seem to be trying to compliment me and the next you mock something I’ve said. You dissect and analyze my every word! Tell me, what IS your goal in all this?

You try to ‘show’ what you believe… How? I’m not getting the picture. Either you aren’t painting it very well or I’m not seeing it very well. I’ve seen your posts in other topics. You quoted Bible verses (which you didn’t particularly like me doing) and also the Sermon on the Mount. Then you come on here and tear apart everything I say and analyze it in a way you THINK I meant it. The Bible tells us Christians need to be united. They need to support and encourage each other when they think the other is doing something wrong. That’s not what you’re doing. Read 1 Peter 3:8-10, and Ephesians 4:1-5 if you will.

When I started this topic it was simply to ask what others believe. I re-read my first post and I still believe that I wrote it that way. I stated what I believe and asked others to do the same. I DO want people to experience Christianity the way I do, and, I agree, in the later posts I did try to ‘promote’ that. I still do and I believe I always will. In the Bible we are commanded to spread the Gospel to all who will hear and I need to focus on that. There are many that need to hear it and want to hear it. God says there is a time when each heart will be open to it and at that point they will either accept it or reject it still. That is the ‘free-will’ part and each will know the truth one day.

I know everyone won’t agree with me - I expected MANY not to agree with me. Yes, everyone has that right. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs and respect for them. I DO respect people for their beliefs and I would never condemn them for them. I WILL, however, continue to witness to those who know they need someone more. I think everyone must feel that and they try to fill it with the only things they know, whether it be a religion or lifestyle or career. I know, and MANY know, that Jesus is the ONLY one who can fill that void.

I think you must be taking my witnessing as if I were aiming it directly to you. I never said I HAD to convert you, but I DID state that I can’t tell if you need to be! Your stand is not cemented in anything I can see and I’m wondering if it’s built on rock or sand.

You really are something else. You say one thing and contradict it with another. Am I to assume that you are trying to confuse me? No, I don’t preach to people that they are damned sinners heading for hell when I ‘preach’. I ‘preach’ that we are ALL sinners and all we need to do is acknowledge that before Jesus, ask His forgiveness and accept Him into our lives to receive the gift of eternal life and happiness. I’m not into the ‘fire-and-brimstone’ stuff that terrifies people to God. God wants people to know He loves them, and He wants them to take comfort in that. He doesn’t want us to live our lives as if we stumble we’re doomed. That’s what Jesus died for. God KNOWS we’re going to stumble, we’re human! It’s not an excuse to sin, it’s reassurance that when we do, we’re forgiven.

Let me give you a for instance. I know you won’t be able to see my side, but just try, okay? If you were driving along, off duty, and you see a driver, passed out on the wheel, slowly heading toward a detour sign where a bridge is out, would you try to stop the vehicle before it plummets 100 ft. below, killing all the occupants, or would you let it go because he didn’t ask you for help or wasn’t a close friend? It’s the same way when you see someone in a destructive lifestyle. If your best friend was a drug addict, would you not try to get him help? I realize you can’t help every addict, but would you try? Many think it’s too much trouble or not their business, but the ones that stick their necks out and TRY to help are the ones who succeed in the long run. I bet just one addict changing his life around would be reward enough to those who tried to help. That’s the same way I feel about Christianity. Refer to 1 John 3:16-17

What beliefs of yours do I respect? Well, I respect whatever your beliefs are, assuming you have some. Still would like to know what they are. All you have to do is say, YES I do/NO I don’t believe in God, YES I do/NO I don’t believe in Jesus, YES I do/NO I don’t believe Jesus was the son of God and died on the cross, etc. How do you SHOW any of that stuff? There comes a time were actions just don’t speak for words.

Well, I have to run. I’ll enjoy reading your dissection of this post also. Wanted to write earlier, but I haven’t had the chance. I’ve been busy searching for a job and with family stuff. Hope everything is well with/for you and once again, God bless you.

I’ll end with 1 John 5:4,5 : “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

In Jesus,

Tiffany[/font:267f25d77f]

[Michael]

Hello Michael,

Hello Tiffany

I said ‘just this once’ last time, but I guess I’ll address this mainly to you ‘once’ again.

I agree with you whole-heartedly on one thing, you have unusual commitment. I’m trying to understand why. Do you find someone in me that you like to debate with

Converse with

or do you simply enjoy trying to fluster me?

No.

Have you accomplished what your goal was?

I didn’t have a goal. I had a purpose, which was to respond to your post(s). I certainly never intended you harm, and having read what you wrote here I’m sorry that wasn’t clear. It would be inconsistent of me to ask you to “believe” that if you don’t experience it, so I only ask you to take note of my report. If your perceive ill-will on my part (I would class “simply enjoying trying to fluster you” as a sign of ill-will) then perhaps you can forgive me, and while you're at it disengage for your own safety and in order to withdraw the object of my temptation for indulging a vice. I notice, though, that Dustdevil, who was openly hostile to your message, has gotten much nicer treatment from you than I just have.

Reading and re-reading your last reply, I realize, by your contrasting statements, that there is nothing I can say that will satisfy you.

Please don’t try to satisfy me.

One sentence you seem to be trying to compliment me and the next you mock something I’ve said.

Any “mocking” was meant good-naturedly, to the attempted tune of “you and me against ‘it’" [the “it” being something one of us overlooked], rather than “me against you.” Again, I certainly never meant to offend you. You strike me as a crusader for truth. Well, I am too. So are others here. We’ve (of course) had different experiences in our different lives, and as I said earlier, I was attempting to spare you some frustration of the kind you reported. That's one of the things you said you were looking for here. For a while some of my efforts seemed at least a little useful to you; perhaps now no longer. Okle-doke; move on, then!

You dissect and analyze my every word!

Isn’t that a sign of respect for your thinking?

Tell me, what IS your goal in all this?

To learn, perhaps also to teach. From and to you and anyone else listening in.

You try to ‘show’ what you believe… How?

By typing. I really don’t know how else to answer that.

I’m not getting the picture. Either you aren’t painting it very well or I’m not seeing it very well.

Or both. Oh, there I go again, contaminating the simplicity of an either/or option.

I’ve seen your posts in other topics. You quoted Bible verses (which you didn’t particularly like me doing)

What I wrote to you about that was: “It is (for some of us) refreshing to read your sparkle and joy, and would be fun to see how your life develops. Bible quotes can be good reading, but as soon as someone who is really looking for communion senses that s/he is being deflected or avoided behind a literary shield, their despair is reinforced (a sin of which I don't claim to be innocent ).”

and also the Sermon on the Mount.

So?

Then you come on here and tear apart everything I say

If you have read my posts to you as “tearing apart everything [you] say” then I fear communication between us is impossible.

and analyze it in a way you THINK I meant it.

How else could I or anyone analyze what any other person says?

The Bible tells us Christians need to be united.

I refer you to your own analogy below.

They need to support and encourage each other when they think the other is doing something wrong. That’s not what you’re doing.

And here I thought I was doing just that; guess you know my motives better than I do.

Read 1 Peter 3:8-10, and Ephesians 4:1-5 if you will.

When I started this topic it was simply to ask what others believe. I re-read my first post and I still believe that I wrote it that way. I stated what I believe and asked others to do the same. I DO want people to experience Christianity the way I do, and, I agree, in the later posts I did try to ‘promote’ that. I still do and I believe I always will. In the Bible we are commanded to spread the Gospel to all who will hear and I need to focus on that. There are many that need to hear it and want to hear it. God says there is a time when each heart will be open to it and at that point they will either accept it or reject it still. That is the ‘free-will’ part and each will know the truth one day.

I know everyone won’t agree with me - I expected MANY not to agree with me. Yes, everyone has that right. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs and respect for them. I DO respect people for their beliefs and I would never condemn them for them.

Funny, I was feeling just a wee bit condemned as I was reading...

I WILL, however, continue to witness to those who know they need someone more. I think everyone must feel that and they try to fill it with the only things they know, whether it be a religion or lifestyle or career. I know, and MANY know, that Jesus is the ONLY one who can fill that void.

I think you must be taking my witnessing as if I were aiming it directly to you. I never said I HAD to convert you, but I DID state that I can’t tell if you need to be!

And what I said was that if that’s the most interesting thing you find about another person, then you may be missing some important things, and (if you can tolerate a compliment) that person will certainly be missing something important about you. Plus, you may leave them unhappy.

Your stand is not cemented in anything I can see

I’d be a fool to dispute your report

and I’m wondering if it’s built on rock or sand.

How okay is it for you not to know? For bright people like yourself, which is not a compliment this time, just stating the obvious, it can be difficult to tolerate uncertainty. Neither is that an insult, just another observation. I’m again suggesting that the binary severity, dare I say apparent rigidity, of the net you sometimes cast – black/white, good/bad, saved/unsaved; does (for example) Michael agree/disagree? Is he a believer/unbeliever? – may be letting some valuable fish get away (the metaphor is not mine).

You really are something else.

I’m trying to locate the agapic tone here and can’t quite tune in to it, but that may be the limitations of the medium.

You say one thing and contradict it with another.

What was that someone complained about “come on here and tear apart everything I say and analyze it in a way you THINK I meant it”? I would be grateful to have my contradictions pointed out. I do see is that my packaging doesn’t always match yours. As I’ve said before, I hope that’s okay with you, and as I’ve also said, I’m truly sorry if it’s not.

Am I to assume that you are trying to confuse me?

No. And thank you for asking.

No, I don’t preach to people that they are damned sinners heading for hell when I ‘preach’. I ‘preach’ that we are ALL sinners and all we need to do is acknowledge that before Jesus, ask His forgiveness and accept Him into our lives to receive the gift of eternal life and happiness.

I honestly don’t see the difference. Sorry.

I’m not into the ‘fire-and-brimstone’ stuff that terrifies people to God. God wants people to know He loves them, and He wants them to take comfort in that. He doesn’t want us to live our lives as if we stumble we’re doomed.

How do you treat those who (you think) stumble? Am I one of them? Has your tone been comforting?

That’s what Jesus died for. God KNOWS we’re going to stumble, we’re human! It’s not an excuse to sin, it’s reassurance that when we do, we’re forgiven.

Why don't I feel forgiven by Tiffany just now?

Let me give you a for instance. I know you won’t be able to see my side, but just try, okay?

What a nasty thing to say!

If you were driving along, off duty, and you see a driver, passed out on the wheel, slowly heading toward a detour sign where a bridge is out, would you try to stop the vehicle before it plummets 100 ft. below, killing all the occupants, or would you let it go because he didn’t ask you for help or wasn’t a close friend? It’s the same way when you see someone in a destructive lifestyle. If your best friend was a drug addict, would you not try to get him help? I realize you can’t help every addict, but would you try? Many think it’s too much trouble or not their business, but the ones that stick their necks out and TRY to help are the ones who succeed in the long run. I bet just one addict changing his life around would be reward enough to those who tried to help. That’s the same way I feel about Christianity. Refer to 1 John 3:16-17

What prevents you from attributing the same kind of motive to my posts?

What beliefs of yours do I respect? Well, I respect whatever your beliefs are, assuming you have some.

a) I find it (literally) incredible that you, or anyone, could respect all beliefs, let alone ones with which you are unacquainted.

I find certain beliefs unworthy of your, or anyone’s, respect (and I suspect you do too).

c) I would never have been interested in a dialogue with you if you had shown such a lack of discrimination as you espouse.

Still would like to know what they are. All you have to do

All I have to do? What will happen if I don’t?

is say, YES I do/NO I don’t believe in God, YES I do/NO I don’t believe in Jesus, YES I do/NO I don’t believe Jesus was the son of God and died on the cross, etc. How do you SHOW any of that stuff? There comes a time were actions just don’t speak for words.

Since it was an example you brought up last time, can you imagine being unable to respond in a yes/no fashion to someone who wants to know, more than anything else about you (except perhaps your age), whether you believe in your family -- before that person shows any interest in how you experience that family? Can you imagine that something so complex and intimate (as you’ve noted) might not lend itself to that simple reduction? Or if an honest answer to the question “Have you got any spare change?” is not always immediately accessible – since it will depend on the tone of the person asking, your assessment of his needs vs. his wants, evaluating his implicit claims against other obligations you have taken on previously…, how much the more these bigger questions? Since, as others on this site have amply demonstrated, “God” means different things to different people, can you imagine that I don’t see the value of two people’s agreeing or disagreeing on the existence of a thing named before they have reached an agreement on what the name means?

Well, I have to run.

Off ya go.

I’ll enjoy reading your dissection of this post also.

That was unkind.

Wanted to write earlier, but I haven’t had the chance.

You will have seen that everyone waited for you, so I was not alone in thinking the wait worthwhile. Compliment, like it or lump it.

I’ve been busy searching for a job

Good wishes for that.

and with family stuff.

And good wishes for that.

Hope everything is well with/for you and once again, God bless you.

I’ll end with 1 John 5:4,5 : “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

In Jesus,

Tiffany

[PCTtiff]

Dear Michael,

Have I finally disappointed you? Again, I apologize. First for the tone I set in my last reply, and second for doing to you what I said you have to me. Forgive me? (As you can tell) I am human, I do get frustrated and I do take it out on people in the wrong way sometimes. Didn't intend on insulting or offending you, and I'm sorry for also 'dissecting' your replies.

Really I do enjoy 'conversing' with you. Granted I may have a weird way of showing it, but I've been pretty stressed lately. I am the first to admit, :oops: I need to practice what I preach more and give my problems to God. I've been hoping to work in the ER, but recently found out they aren't hiring. The EMT classes I hoped to take were cancelled. My whole family is going through some kind of a bug. I've been searching and searching for a job and now am trying to apply at a nursing home. ETC., ETC., ETC. It's just alot of things and I get overwhelmed. Again, I apologize for taking it out on you.

I still think you 'dissect' everything I write :wink:, but it gives me a different perspective and I think I need it. Seems we both have reason to be sorry to the other. I think we're both coming to conclusions about each other that aren't yet founded. Believe me, I am sorry for giving you any wrong impressions and for over-analyzing your thoughts/words to me.

Thanks for trying to 'look out for me' and I do appreciate your insight. Your posts prove your depth and personal knowledge of many of these things and THAT is what I respect - your ability to debate or 'converse' w/o losing your ground. I think I lost my footing in my last post. :roll:

You are absolutely right, I CAN'T respect ALL beliefs. I can't respect religions that include witchcraft, spells, human/animal sacrifice, satanic worship, etc. I'm sure you feel the same. I mean, I try to respect people's searching (like Buddha, Islam, etc.). Yes, I also think everyone is searching.

You're right on another thing about me. I'm not good with uncertainty. I like to be in control and, as I said, I need to practice what I preach! The hardest thing for me is not knowing. When I get close to people, I want to know that I'm going to see them again (either again, or for the first time) if/when something happens to me/them. I have people in my family that aren't saved and it really affects me, that not knowing. I guess that personality thing with me makes it harder for me to get close to people I 'don't know' about. Forgive me for that also?

I have to run again. Hope you've read this and understand. I'll watch my words better next time. Thanks for your 'commitment' and hope to hear from you again. God Bless you.

In Jesus,

Tiffany

[Michael]

Dear Michael,

Yo, Tiffany

Have I finally disappointed you?

Arab proverb: The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on. Let the caravan be our goodwill for each other, the “dogs” the conniptions our fool flesh is prone to. I’m gratified to be taken seriously enough to be an irritant, even if irritating is not my purpose. A friend of mine, a schoolteacher, once overreacted to a student who became very upset and then came into school with her mother for a three-way conference. In the course of the discussion, my friend, who happens to be a short man, eventually said to them both, “I know I’m not very big. But I’m not so small that I can’t say I’m sorry.” (It was the mother who related the story to me.)

Again, I apologize. First for the tone I set in my last reply, and second for doing to you what I said you have to me. Forgive me?

You betcha. I still remember that harboring resentment is like swallowing poison and then waiting for the other person to die.

(As you can tell) I am human, I do get frustrated and I do take it out on people in the wrong way sometimes. Didn't intend on insulting or offending you, and I'm sorry for also 'dissecting' your replies.

But that’s what I write them for!

Really I do enjoy 'conversing' with you.

Ah. Nice. Happy to make you happy.

Granted I may have a weird way of showing it, but I've been pretty stressed lately.

Sorry to hear that.

I am the first to admit, I need to practice what I preach more and give my problems to God. I've been hoping to work in the ER, but recently found out they aren't hiring.

We’re in a weird spot, speaking of weird: We don’t of course want people to be ill or injured, but we do want to do things that we couldn’t do if they were not. Something will turn up for you.

The EMT classes I hoped to take were cancelled.

Yow. Again, fortunately/unfortunately, there will continue to be a demand for your services and therefore opportunities for training. I once had a (non-ems) boss who used to remind us when things seemed to go awry, “You never know what it’s good for.” That’s not to dismiss or trivialize your frustration. I hate disappointments myself. Grrrr. I hope a new course opens soon. You’ll be good.

My whole family is going through some kind of a bug. I've been searching and searching for a job and now am trying to apply at a nursing home. ETC., ETC., ETC. It's just alot of things and I get overwhelmed. Again, I apologize for taking it out on you.

Probably better me than others closer at hand…

I still think you 'dissect' everything I write ,

I don’t know how else to think, sorry.

but it gives me a different perspective and I think I need it. Seems we both have reason to be sorry to the other. I think we're both coming to conclusions about each other that aren't yet founded.

Please tell me what conclusions about you I jumped to.

Believe me, I am sorry for giving you any wrong impressions and for over-analyzing your thoughts/words to me.

Wrong impressions I haven’t yet identified, and to be honest, my complaints have been from having my thoughts/words (apparently) under- rather than over-analyzed.

Thanks for trying to 'look out for me' and I do appreciate your insight. Your posts prove your depth and personal knowledge of many of these things and THAT is what I respect - your ability to debate or 'converse' w/o losing your ground.

Hmmm… Funny thing about losing one’s ground is that the loss isn’t always immediately apparent, so I take a wait-n-see attitude about whether I’ve really lost, gained, borrowed, begged, stolen ground or anything else (where moth and rust corrupt)

I think I lost my footing in my last post.

Tiffany, may I introduce you to your footing? Footing, I'd like you to meet Tiffany. In fact, I think you two may already know each other from other circumstances…

You are absolutely right, I CAN'T respect ALL beliefs.

HA! Michael does a happy dance all over the page, shimmy shimmy

I can't respect religions that include witchcraft, spells, human/animal sacrifice

Now if it were someone else and not I, you’d hear something about a human sacrifice at Golgotha, but you would be able to respond with an exemption clause for when the sacrifice is not initiated by mortal will. Nevertheless, an intriguing paradox in the Christian narrative…

, satanic worship, etc. I'm sure you feel the same.

All right, just this once I’ll grant you mind-reading capacities.

I mean, I try to respect people's searching (like Buddha, Islam, etc.). Yes, I also think everyone is searching.

At some level of consciousness or another…

You're right on another thing about me. I'm not good with uncertainty.

You sure about that? (Tee-hee.)

I like to be in control and, as I said, I need to practice what I preach! The hardest thing for me is not knowing.

Ah. Hard to fill brimming cup says the Zen master. Your Bible recommends “kenosis” – an emptying.

When I get close to people, I want to know that I'm going to see them again (either again, or for the first time)

sorry, didn’t catch what that meant

if/when something happens to me/them. I have people in my family that aren't saved and it really affects me, that not knowing.

Gosharooney I’d be happier to see you taking a more flexible approach to the category of “being saved.” The first Christians, as you probably know, didn’t call themselves “Christians,” but rather people of/on the way/the path. What path is that? What is the way (or Way) that Christ describes himself as? One thing we know about any way is that there ain’t no “there” there; if one believes (note: believes) that one has arrived, one will of course stop traveling. May I propose that you ask yourself whether your Christ is not already accompanying those who concern you, with the same tenderness, wisdom, comprehensive power, and interest that you have sensed His taking in you, and with infinitely more discretion than any human being can generate for, say, family members. May I propose that (say) your kin need from you the substance of unique gifts with which you have been created and that you have developed, rather than a message. I ask whether it may not be more Christlike to minister to others with your spontaneous interest rather than with a program. Perhaps what you offer that way is not as defined (= less control on your part), and for all that perhaps more valuable? Certainly more interesting! And I daresay costs more; as I mentioned a while back, as in “bought with a price.”

I guess that personality thing with me makes it harder for me to get close to people I 'don't know' about. Forgive me for that also?

As with the woman taken in adultery (uh, which is where the comparison stops), there was no need to forgive, so she heard instead of “I forgive you,” “Neither do I condemn you.”

I have to run again.

Habakkuk 2:2

Hope you've read this and understand.

I hope I have too, and trust that you’ll set me straight if not. Like most ems personnel, regardless of professed creed, I join in the worship of the school that hopes to find that “Man is the religion of the gods.”

I'll watch my words better next time.

Oh My Word

Thanks for your 'commitment'

Welx

and hope to hear from you again.

I’m never at a loss for an opinion.

God Bless you.

So long as Tiffany does too, Thank you.

[Medic117]

What is the problem with Hell, fire, and brimstone?

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."--Jude 21-23

[PCTtiff]

Dear Michael,

Your replies are so amusing sometimes! Thanks for replying and for your good humor. Thanks for the encouragement and words. I guess I'll give you this too, I needed to hear it and it helped. Thanks.

I'm just learning that all sunshine makes a desert. I know I'm going to have to go through some hard times and I can't just give up and get depressed. Like I said though, I have anxiety problems and I'm trying to work on them too. Sometimes things get to be too much. I have to remember no situation is hopeless as long as I keep my hope in God. Romans 8:31 "What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?".

Thanks for re-introducing me to my footing. Yes, we have met before and I'm hoping to hold on to it for a while now. :wink:

About that human sacrifice in Golgotha, yes there was a BIG sacrifice there, and yes, as you said, also a BIG difference. Human sacrifices today and yesterday, etc. are NOT related to Jesus' sacrifice at all. That's what He died for, so that our forgiveness did not require a sacrificed life! But, I know you know that, I don't have to tell you.

When I get close to people, I want to know that I am going to see them again someday. I mean, if something happens to someone I am close to, I want to be able to look forward to the day when we'll meet again, as in Heaven or when Jesus comes back again. You know what I mean?

Oh, I KNOW Jesus is with my family members, I know He is with all those I care about, and I know He's working in their hearts. I don't witness or preach to them alot. I pray for them alot and try to, as you say, show what I believe. There's a point where people won't listen anymore and instead they watch. I just don't want to lead anyone astray by my actions either and it's like a constant battle w/ myself. I drive myself crazy!! LOL I think that's where my anxiety kicks in. Oh well...

LOL I know you're never at a loss for an opinion. That can be a good thing! :wink: Even though we don't often agree, I'm glad to hear it. Talk to you later.

God Bless you!

In Jesus,

Tiffany

[Michael]

Dear Michael,

Dear Tiffany!

Your replies are so amusing sometimes! Thanks for replying

not a sacrifice

and for your good humor.

just the chimes through which neighboring winds play

Thanks for the encouragement

by faith, not by sight

and words.

gotta sackful

I guess I'll give you this too, I needed to hear it and it helped.

comes by hearing

Thanks.

Apollos watered

I'm just learning that all sunshine makes a desert. I know I'm going to have to go through some hard times and I can't just give up and get depressed. Like I said though, I have anxiety problems and I'm trying to work on them too. Sometimes things get to be too much. I have to remember no situation is hopeless as long as I keep my hope in God. Romans 8:31 "What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?".

Mencius (pupil of Confucius): “When Heaven is going to give a great responsibility to someone, it first makes his mind endure suffering. It makes his sinews and bones experience toil, and his body to suffer hunger. It inflicts him with poverty and knocks down everything he tries to build.” [many mansions]

Thanks for re-introducing me to my footing. Yes, we have met before and I'm hoping to hold on to it for a while now.

lest thou dash

About that human sacrifice in Golgotha, yes there was a BIG sacrifice there, and yes, as you said, also a BIG difference. Human sacrifices today and yesterday, etc. are NOT related to Jesus' sacrifice at all. That's what He died for, so that our forgiveness did not require a sacrificed life! But, I know you know that, I don't have to tell you.

through hearing

When I get close to people, I want to know that I am going to see them again someday. I mean, if something happens to someone I am close to, I want to be able to look forward to the day when we'll meet again, as in Heaven or when Jesus comes back again. You know what I mean?

Now I do

Oh, I KNOW Jesus is with my family members, I know He is with all those I care about,

* ahem * and not with those you don’t? tee-hee

and I know He's working in their hearts.

tha-thump, tha-thump

I don't witness or preach to them alot. I pray for them alot and try to, as you say, show what I believe. There's a point where people won't listen anymore and instead they watch.

Martin Luther: Don’t listen to my mouth, watch my hands

I just don't want to lead anyone astray by my actions either

unavoidable

and it's like a constant battle w/ myself.

‘tis

I drive myself crazy!!

no better chauffeur for hire

LOL I think that's where my anxiety kicks in.

hard for thee to kick

Oh well...

Sir, give me this water

LOL I know you're never at a loss for an opinion.

beg borrow or steal

That can be a good thing! Even though we don't often agree,

I disagree

I'm glad

wipe away from them every tear

to hear it. Talk to you later.

till

God Bless you!

face to shine

In Jesus,

Tiffany

[PCTtiff]

Just had to write one more time for anyone who might see this. (I'm a glutton for punishment.)

The previous posts have really been something else. They have been debated and dissected :boxing: - not just by Michael and I, but by everyone who has gotten to this point. It's been a LOOONG road, hasn't it? :happy1:

Anyway, I had one more thing - actually three more things to add - or as 'someone' ( :happy8: ) dislikes me saying, share with you all. I spent last night reading, found these and knew I had to write.

First off, Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Scary? Yes. Hopeless? No. (Oh, and that means you, me and the next guy. Murderer AND white-lie-teller).

Secondly, Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." We all earned our punishment, Thank God we don't have to pay for it!

Last (and the best usually comes then), Romans 10:13 - "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." The greatest gift of all. And to think, all we have to do to get it is to call on him...

Well, there you have it. I said my piece. If anyone wants some more verses like those (especially the inspiring ones), let me know - I got a BIG book full of them! :wink:

You don't have to believe it, you're not pressured into reading this. Just think about it. Does it hurt to think about it? Before you buy a car, you want to check everything out, make sure everything is kosher, right? One little thing is though, if you spend a year investigating every little part to be sure, you'll never get a chance to drive it! Sometimes you just have to have faith that the builder made it sturdy enough not to fall to pieces on the highway.

THINK about it.[/font:8354508927]

[Michael]

________________________________________

Just had to write one more time

Does that mean you’re bowing out?

for anyone who might see this. (I'm a glutton for punishment.)

If it does mean you’re bowing out, I’d call that not gluttony but leaving as soon as the appetizer has appeared. Not a judgment, just a characterization; people should eat only what they wish (Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it. -- For those who like their wisdom aged).

The previous posts have really been something else. They have been debated and dissected - not just by Michael and I, but by everyone who has gotten to this point. It's been a LOOONG road, hasn't it?

Depends what lengths you’re used to going.

Anyway, I had one more thing - actually three more things to add - or as 'someone' ( ) dislikes me saying, share with you all.

I don’t know if I’m the one you whom think doesn’t like “share”; I don’t recall ever objecting. But if an objection is to be made, it would be on the basis of trivializing the principle of (*ahem*) sacrifice; namely, “sharing” has traditionally meant that I will have less of what I’ve shared after I’ve shared it, like, say, a pie. If it doesn’t cost the giver anything tangible, then purists would say it’s not sharing; it’s telling, relating, informing… But I prefer to let others speak as they wish, so long as the meaning is clear. Whadda guy, huh?

I spent last night reading,

That’s how St. Augustine was converted

found these and knew I had to write.

Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words”

First off, Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Scary? Yes. Hopeless? No. (Oh, and that means you, me and the next guy. Murderer AND white-lie-teller).

Another thing I don’t know: I know don’t know anyone who thinks himself perfect in all respects, so while what you quote is true enough, it isn’t really news, though during the Roman Empire it would have been news to the psychologically disturbed emperors and those of their pitiful subjects who worshiped them.

Secondly, Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." We all earned our punishment, Thank God we don't have to pay for it!

There may be some reading this here or elsewhere who don’t recall what they did to earn capital punishment.

Last (and the best usually comes then), Romans 10:13 - "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." The greatest gift of all. And to think, all we have to do to get it is to call on him...

"But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, 'Son, go work today in the vineyard.' And he answered, 'I will not'; but afterward he regretted it and went. The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, 'I will, sir'; but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first.”

Which is to say, Is there not a bit of mystery left about what that “name of the Lord” actually is? (No other person to my knowledge appeared and called himself “I am.”) Naming is not the same as knowing…

Well, there you have it. I said my piece.

Again, this sounds like a sign-off. Is it? (*sniff*)

If anyone wants some more verses like those (especially the inspiring ones), let me know - I got a BIG book full of them!

We all already have access to your book; it’s access to you that is the commodity over which you hold a monopoly. No pressure to conform to another’s will, Tiffany, just reporting that you are worth many sparrows, to coin a phrase.

You don't have to believe it, you're not pressured into reading this. Just think about it. Does it hurt to think about it?

Only when it’s instead of making your better acquaintance (I speak for myself and perhaps others to whom you witness), even by message-board. Stones instead of bread, to coin another phrase.

Before you buy a car, you want to check everything out, make sure everything is kosher, right?

Before you buy a car, in fact instead of buying a car, you’ll be annoyed if the car-salesman keeps trying to sell you a dishwasher.

One little thing is though, if you spend a year investigating every little part to be sure, you'll never get a chance to drive it!

A friend of mine whose mother was a psychotherapist and was always trying to “help” him, concluded when he had grown up that having a mother who’s a psychotherapist can be like having an uncle who’s a tire-salesman; every time you want to talk to your uncle about something important, he tries to give you a great deal on a set of tires. “Tires,” my friend cried out, “I can get down the street; I want an uncle! Couldn't she just have been my mother?”

Sometimes you just have to have faith that the builder made it sturdy enough not to fall to pieces on the highway.

I have the oddest feeling of being left standing on the highway…

THINK about it.

Not much else to do with it! Godspeed, then.

[PCTtiff]

Dear Michael,

Here I stand, I can do no other.[/font:0dedcb3213]