C-collar without a backboard?

[Burnzonemt]

They probably had a KED in the ambo. Why not use that or as redbkirk said a short board if they were out of LSB's? Course who knows as unpopular as the KED is if anyone even remembered how to use it. (save the hate mail, I'm being sarcastic)

[Nate]

People are lazy.

[Ridryder 911]

and to add stupid and ignorant.

R/R 911

[craig]

Mechanism may be there

Injury may be there

remember that this was seen as a passerby not as the attending officer.

did the crew actually apply the collar? I have seen numerous people driving their cars with a collar on due to an "existing neck injury"

just because there was a collar does it mean that there is a spinal injury?

times it is more advantage to transport the patient on a softer bed with their head blocked and strapped in, than to transport on a hard board.

did they get the patient out of the vehicle on a board and then move them to the bed?

the spinal board or back board is a extrication device not for transport on.

the board does not fill the hollows of the back and cause the spine to 'flex' at the points where the hollows are above the board. this then can cause damage to injured areas of the spine.

there are many variables to the use of spine boards as a transport device.

There is also many studies showing that to transport on a hard board can cause more injuries and that to collar the patient, head block them and restrain them to the bed is more than adequate.

here in Australia, many hospitals (including a world leading spinal unit) frown upon the ?? spinal patient being transported on a long board. they would prefer that they get transported in a RED KED or NIJE with a collar.

stay safe

[craig]

Preciesly =)

If he had no pain, I can understand this one. However, if they have a significant mechanism of injury and they say "My necy/back/head hurts." they are going on the board. It's not thier choice any more.

A significant mechanism.............

so if he was in a gun fight and had a GSW, was holding a gun, whilst bleeding all over the place, do they also not have a choice?

if the pateint was alert and conscious they ALWAYS have the choice.

woe and behold the medic that physically restrained the patient to a board with straps and head box AGAINST the PATIENTS EXPRESSED WISHES.....have you heard o assult?

stay safe

[kemt217]

If the collar goes on they are on a LSB. I can say that as of yet I have never had someone refuse to be put on the board.

[nsmedic393]

I don't know where any of you started thinking that if force patients against their will onto a spine board. If they want treatment than they get treatment. 9 chances out of ten if they want treatment but don't want to be strapped to a board than I can use my diplomatic skills to make it happen. And of course there is the rare occasion where someone (who again wants treatment) will not go on the board, there are other options like a ked or manual stabilasion. NOT the semi-fowler position as mentioned in the original post.

When it comes down to it, the persons who usually can't be talked onto a board are the ones who do not want any treatment at all.

I do not offer a collar alone as some sort of compromise for a patient that does not want treatment because a collar without anything else is useless as tits on a bull moose.

And it will be a cold day in australia when I wheele a patient into the ER with only a collar on and then tell the charge nurse about how I suspect a c-spine injury.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Thunder wrote:

"If he had no pain, I can understand this one. However, if they have a significant mechanism of injury and they say "My necy/back/head hurts." they are going on the board. It's not thier choice any more."

well you just opened yourself up to litigation for forcing treatment on someone who didn't want it. I can tell you that if you were treating me and I said no on a backboard and you took that line that it's not my choice then we'd have some significant problems and your boss and EMS agency as well as the state bureau of EMS would be hearing about it.

You say it's not their choice anymore are you saying that if they need an IV and they refuse that they get one anyway? You are on a truly slippery slope if you believe what you wrote in your post.

If someone refuses treatment be it an IV or a backboard and you force them becuase you say it's not their choice then you are way out of line.

Please tell me you don't force these patients into things.

[zippyRN]

The reason you were not taught this technique, it is because it does not exist. Since a c-collar doesn't actually offer much protection when dealing with a patient with a suspected c-spine injury it is not effective without a long board, proper straping, and c=spine imobilization with head blocks. Only applying a c-collar is lazy and half-a$$ing it. If you apply a collar the long-board should be following right behind.

board and strapping are irrelevant - however a collar allone is not enough

what aobut

- Collar, head blocks compatible with trolley matress and 10 G trolley 'seatbelts'

- collar , KED, blanket roll and cot 'seat belts '

[nsmedic393]

board and strapping are irrelevant - however a collar allone is not enough

what aobut

- Collar, head blocks compatible with trolley matress and 10 G trolley 'seatbelts'

- collar , KED, blanket roll and cot 'seat belts '

Both would prove very effective I immagine. However the original post referred to a patient in the semi-fowler position.

Realisinig that there are different points of vue in different areas regarding spinal immobilisation over here a long board is still considered the difinitive form of treatment. Alternatives such as the ked and manual stabilisation are also effective and have been mentioned by myself and others.

Do they make headblocks that attach to a stretcher?