Fair Contract for NYC

[UMSTUDENT]

I break volunteer EMS down like this: 10% dedicated, noble people, 25% lights and sirens weirdos, 35% people with serious emotional and/or mental disorders, and 30% bored housewives.

Wow, that is probably the absolute truth! I have met more people with serious social deficiencies in EMS/fire than anywhere else in my life. So many people with ego problems or some other weird or creepy past. I've met a lot of people with some types of learning issues as well. It is so prevalent in EMS that modern instructor courses basically teach you to assume that the majority of your incoming classes will be unable to behave themselves and stay attentive. It's basically how to teach special-ed kids. I understand a lot of this is basic adult/non-traditional student education, but on the same note I find it kind of disturbing that you have to treat these people in a special manner because they're "public service workers."

In regards to the volunteer/paid argument, I've made an argument similar to Dust's in the past. Many people will often argue that the volunteer community is the source of future career paramedics. Most of them will ask, "Where will a new paramedic get the experience necessary to operate successfully in the field?"

I tried offering up that in a professional world, people would enter into college with the goal of being paramedics "just because." Doctors and nurses do it all the time. I also suggested that paramedics be made to go through small rotations and internships before they are released to the field, however, this was quickly shot down as being "unrealistic." I would say that 50% of the current EMS work force just doesn't want paramedics to be educated in the traditional manner.

[param]

Having been a volunteer firefighter and EMT-B and having taken the plunge into making EMS my full time career am now a EMT-P, i believe that there is a role for the volunteer, but it has to be a support role. How would you feel as a volunteer if i came along to your work place and decided to volunteer my services, your employer then tells you that you are not getting a raise because the volunteers are helping out and if you don't like it then hit the road.

One needs to remember that this is a career for us full time employees and we all need to support our families, we do it because we love the job, however love does not feed or house or school your kids.

The comment about if you don't like it then get out, is pretty narrow minded, for the following reasons, i love my job but some guys/girls can't support a family on the pay they earn so if they try to get an increase the answer is if you don't like it leave, the volunteers work for free anyway?

I work in JHB South Africa, the system of education is busy changing for one to become a EMT-P, you used to be able to do short courses, Basic Ambulance Attendant, Intermediate and then Paramedic, soon the short courses will fall away and the only way to become a paramedic is for you do your Degree through the University, this helps in 2 ways:

1. We get a great education and a degree with the option of doing our Doctorate.

2. The cost will keep all the people who are not truly dedicated out of the system, you either stick around for 4 years full time study or you leave with nothing.

Sorry if i offended any one, just remember we all fight to earn a better salary, why should EMS workers be any different.

[Dustdevil]

Great observations from both UM and param!

And Asys, you've outdone yourself again. Your statistical analysis, I would bet, is even more accurate than my own!

SPELL CHECKED: No errors found. 8)

[Just Plain Ruff]

I agree on points about ems not being a volunteer service and if it is it's destined to go the way of the dodo.

you cannot support yourself on a volunteer salary.

When the volunteers dry up, and Grandma moses needs an ambulance or the mayor drops dead of a heart attack and no volunteer's showed up the city will get off their butts and find the money somewhere to start paying for EMS.

[Nate]

Well I think everything that I wanted to say has been covered when it comes to the volunteer issue.

Back on topic as far as New York City. Maybe it would be best for the city to form a comitte to investigate what the EMS personal are wanting/willing to do. If a decent contract can be offered and the unification of NYC EMS into one service (third party sounds best), then I say do it. If it can't, then go back to the table to figure out what it would take to bring all of the medics together into one system.

[UMSTUDENT]

I think the volunteer issue will erode away in the next 7-10 years. I've heard and seen numerous facts and figures that show a tremendous growth in the EMS workforce to occur sometime around 2008. Seminars and all. The theory is that as the baby boomers get older, they will in turn place a significant demand on the EMS system throughout the U.S.

Many people often push these lectures and figures aside because they believe there is nothing significantly different between the baby boomers and any other generation of people. They fail to realize that the baby boomers are an extremely unique group of people historically; themselves responsible for the majority of the social and cultural changes of the last 40 years. One of the first generations of Americans to really demand a comfortable existence. They won't put up with the current economical and political status of EMS in this country.

I've already seen it in my community. Young and middle aged adults who move into the area often make comments about the lack of "professional, paid EMS in the area." They complain if the ambulance takes more than 4 minutes to get to their house. I had one lady as early as two years ago ask why we didn't "cruise around town and wait for calls to be dispatched so we would be ready." She was making a rudimentary reference to event driven dispatch and system status management. While it is arguable whether these forms of EMS are the best, it does bring a little hope to the situation.

[Asysin2leads]

Screw the baby boomers. As George Carlin said, a generation who's founding principle is "GIMME IT IT'S MINE!!!" Nothing worse than a sanctimonious overweight 50 year old with grey hair tied back in a pony tail.

Volunteer EMS in a support role isn't a bad idea. Sometimes you will get the s*** hits the fan situation and you do need a lot of people with some rudimentary knowledge of basic first aid. It does happen.

I believe also that EMS should be made into a profession on par with nursing or even such things as physician's assistant. I would much rather have an 18 year old high school student say "this interests me, I'm going to apply to college for it" than one who says "this interests me, I'm going to do an EMT-Basic class and drop the tuition equivalent on stuff from Gall's"

EMS is certainly intellectually and physically challenging enough to demand a full licensed, educated, and trained provider. It's up to the American public to start demanding better prehospital care for it to happen, and slowly, it is happening. Once you see a family member get treated by a well trained and educated paramedic, getting an ambulance with anything less in someone's time of need does not make good press.

[davefdny1]

I can appreciate the different views of people about having volunteer ambulances. However I agree with the individual that stated you would not want 20 volunteer RN's on you at the hospital. I think the same goes for EMS. Paramedics should be kept out of the "hobby" arena. You are dealing with peoples lives. If somebody is that interested in being a Paramedic, go to school and change careers so you can devote the amout of training and time it requires to be a good professional Paramedic. If It was you hurt on the street, would you want anything less? Think about it.

[xselerate]

There is a damn good reason why FDNY EMT's should be paid more then all other EMTs.... THEY ARE THE BEST.

The FDNY EMS Academy is BLS on heroin.... it is super intense and super hard. A huge amount of them fail the Academy outright. Don't even try to tell me that a 'volly' EMT can diagnose traumatic asphyxia and pericardial tamponade or tell the difference between rising ICP and shock.... it just ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. FDNY EMT's are trained to a level far beyond other basic EMT's (and I'm not even including all the Haz Mat and MCI Incident Command System training they get).

FDNY EMT's deserve pay equal at least to cops and closer to firefighters.

And another thing.... these volunteers are operating in there nice local neighborhoods.... FDNY EMT's have to work the worst neighborhoods in the city. And anyone who says it's not dangerous should ask themselves why FDNY EMT's are issued ( that's ISSUED, not bought cause there buffs ) bullet proof vests and gas masks. Yeah.... there's a huge difference between FDNY EMT's and all others.... now pay them accordingly!

[Asysin2leads]

What she said is all true. EXCEPT FDNY PARAMEDICS ARE EVEN BETTER!!!