MedicDude Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 Hey guys (and girls), I just wanted to get some idea of what you feel is appropriate conduct for students in a paramedic course. Here in Ontario (if you didn't know already) it's a 2 year course taught at a community college, with lots of class and clinical work. The reason I'm asking about conduct is because of certain things I've seen and heard in my program. I've heard about students getting involved with other students-- Ok not the smartest thing, but I don't really have much of a problem with it. There's no power differential there; just two students... What's more disturbing is students getting involved with their clinical supervisors/preceptors. I always maintained a professional relationship with the EMS crews and hospital staff I was placed with. However, I've heard stories of a few (not sure how many exactly; maybe two or three) students who have had "romantic" (I use the term loosely) relations with preceptors/supervisors. They joke about it, and other students gossip about it, but I'm really disturbed by it. We are supposed to be learning about the job and learning skills, not "getting it on"... It creates an environment hostile to learning: how can staff/preceptors be fair, impartial, and do their jobs as teachers if they are banging their students? There's always a conflict of interest in cases like that. I blame the students who do this sort of thing, but I also blame the more senior staff who would even allow themselves to get into this position. I'm just not sure who to talk to about this sort of thing. I feel it is bad for learning, turns students against each other, undermines the effectiveness of preceptorship, and puts our college program in a bad light. After all, if the services got wind of this sort of thing happening, what would they think about the calibre of students from our program? Being able to find services willing to take PCP students is already a problem. This is just going to make it worse. So, what are your thoughts on this? Is my concern justified? And if so, who should I talk to about this?
Ridryder 911 Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 A few years ago I was in a compromising situation. I was the instructor of an EMT course as well as a Supervisor . I had a student that all of sudden stopped her clinical phase and stopped going to class. After inquiring from a friend and classmate she had confided that an employee, (preceptor) had made advances on her at a clinical. This really placed me in a bind, being the instructor and supervisor that this apparently occurred. Th medic ( whom was married .. shocking huh ? ) admitted to it.. There was no further discussion, he was terminated immediately. Unfortunately, the student did not return and finish her course, even with me attempting to contact her and leaving messages that she could attend clinicals elsewhere, and make up on lost class time. I blame the EMS workers, that feel that students are easy pickings. They are infatuated at the time and overwhelmed. It is the responsibility of the preceptor to be professional enough, to maintain their composure long enough not to harass or flirt with students. Telling them they would like to talk to or participate after they finish the program or out their clinical phase is their business. Too many so called "professionals" exemplify unprofessional conduct and behavior. This does nothing for our profession, but lowers our standards and encourages the general concept "it is the norm" .. maybe after a couple litigation's and potential harassment suits things will change. I forewarn students of such behavior will not be tolerated on both sides. I highly suggest you talk to your clinical coordinator or program director, privately. Good luck in your education. Be safe, R/R 911
Just Plain Ruff Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 no supervisor/preceptor should ever even think about getting involved in a relationship wiht student. END OF STORY If so they should be terminated. These students are impressionable and vulnerable due to the stress that is put on them. Work stress is different but theyshould have that extra stress on them. Student and student relationships - what ever floats their boats.
Dustdevil Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 Meh... if Bill Clinton can do it (and get re-elected), I find it pretty hard to justify firing anybody for flirting. Yes, it can be a major disruption to the educational process and the professional environment. But it's also prevalent human nature, and is in most cases NOT disruptive or harmful. So, if you are consistent in your application of policies, you will be firing medics and booting students who are in healthy and consensual relationships, and even people who are doing nothing more than flirting. And I submit that is more damaging to the educational process and professional environment than is letting it stand. Unfortunately, it's an all or nothing proposition. And either way, you cause as much disruption as you prevent. SPELL CHECKED: No errors found. 8)
AnatomyChick Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I had this happen in one of the programs that I taught... one of the students started dating one of the Adjunct Instructors. Luckily things did not get nasty before the end of the course, but once I found out about the situation the instructor was "suspended" from her duties. I have since "forbidden" all Instructor/student fraternization outside of the classroom. it's been difficult, there were too many possible problems before.
JakeEMTP Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I can understand your position AnatomyChick, but how can you forbid Human nature? If 2 consenting adults wish to have a relationship, then so be it. I have never been in the situation discussed, but I can assure you if I was attracted to a instructor/student, I'd have to go with the flow. Outside of the classroom is really not your domain. If the are inappropriate in class, I can understand. However, if they're not, if the act professional in the classroom enviroment, more power to them. On a side note, one of my fellow students Mother is an instructor in our class. Is that going to help him? sure it is. Do I have a problem with it? No, I have faith in my ablities,
PrissyEMT Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 Good point Jake. I agree- as long as it doesn't carry over into the classroom, there shouldn't be a problem. It's only human nature, and sometimes you just can't help who you're attracted to. :wink:
nsmedic393 Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I would check your schools policies manual. Perhaps they have a section on conduct. I know in my school we signed a student contract stating that we could be dismissed for any breach in the of policies, from missing more than x number of clinical shifts to fraternisation with instructors. Last year the lead instructor for our PCP program was fired for having a sexual relationship with his student. My thoughts, you have feelings for someone, pick it up when the program is done. Medics sleeping with students are perhaps taking advantage of the fact that the student may think a little more highly of them since they are in a position of power. Lastly, It calls question as to weather the student actually deserves to pass. Chances are they may be a good student but how can you trust the process when they are sleeping with the instructor. How likely is it that you will fail the person you are bumping uglies with.
AnthonyM83 Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I've heard about students getting involved with other students-- Ok not the smartest thing, but I don't really have much of a problem with it. There's no power differential there; just two students...Eh...I'd submit that it's not the smartest thing NOT to try with your classmates
PRPGfirerescuetech Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 Good point Jake. I agree- as long as it doesn't carry over into the classroom, there shouldn't be a problem. It's only human nature, and sometimes you just can't help who you're attracted to. :wink: "Canigeta amen??" But in all seriousness, This isn't the responsibility of the student, this is the problem of the educator. When operating in the capacity of educator, you have to maintain a professional decorum above all else. I do understand that certain things happen, but when in this position, the educator needs to make a distinct choice. Be involved with the student, and no longer teach the course, or do NOT be involved with the student and continue on. To continue as a instructor after the act is an incredible conflict of interest, and shouldn't be allowed to occur.
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