Young people in EMS and evidence against it

[UMSTUDENT]

Speaking of ignorance! First of all, almost ALL of the churches have been predominantly white attended churches. And second of all, even if they were affected equally (which they were not) how would that show a racist problem? Dude? Don't they teach statistics at UM? :roll:

"The previous Alabama church arsons have been at Baptist churches, five with predominantly black congregations and five with mainly white members" -CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/19/church.fires/index.html

.5+.5= 1. Statistically speaking my friend, that is as "equal" as it gets. I'd also like to point out that racism can occur towards other cultures besides African Americans. If they were killing just Caucasian Americans, that too seems a bit racist.

It doesn't show a "racist problem," just a general lack of concern for other human beings. They're just equal opportunity arsonist and bigots.

[UMSTUDENT]

Good points Micheal. Apparently there are many newbies that read and take some these forums very seriously. I know of students that does clinicals with me (never knowing whom I am) talk about the posts.

Veteran EMS workers really do want younger participants to survive and do it successfully (Hey, who is going to take care of us ?) It is not we think we are better, just we have seen so many before you ... make the same mistake(s) , have the same though process, etc.. Why re-invent the wheel and learn life lessons again with the sacrifice to the patient and the medics as well.

Although, we did SERIOUSLY get side tracked, it is also nice, that there are diversified thoughts and opinions. If we thought all alike this forum would be VERY boring like some other EMS forums...

*UMStudent I had just graduated from high school & entered my freshman year @ OSU (OK. State Univ) as a President of the local "Young Democrats Org."...luncheon for him ( about 25 of us total). I was trying to be a delegate.

Be safe,

R/ R 911

Good post Rid and thanks for the reply. The best way to promote a bright future for the profession is to teach valuable life lessons early on. I think you're absolutely right in that while we all argue, I'd also like to think that we all leave it in that individual post. I may fervently disagree with someone, but I take what they say to heart. Arguments make for some of life's best lessons. Look at marriage :wink:

[rcmedic]

I originally took my EMT-B classes bask in 1994. I completed the course, but did not take the NR test because honestly, I was well aware of my own maturity. I knew for a fact that I had self esteem issues and issues handling stress and that taking on such a position could be dangerous for myself and my patients.

Fast forward to 2005. I finally got a job that would allow me to pick a schedule that would work out with school. I took the prerequisite courses and then started in our EMT-B program. I was 29 years old and thought "I am a lot more mature now. I can do this."

When I was 18, I thought that I had lived a full life and had 'seen everything' because I grew up in a foreign country. Now I'm 30 and I refuse to say "I've seen it all" because I know that I sure as hell haven't 'seen it all' by any means.

There are some 18-21yr olds in the class, and a few of them are nice people, but folks that have a very immature attitude towards life in general. There are a few that I would not want to work with. Again, they're nice folks, but I would not feel that comfortable working with them.

"Ok dude, what's your point?" you ask? My point is that although 18 year olds go out of their way to act 'adult' in many cases they are just not up to the task. I wouldn't mind seeing the minimum age for even EMTs raised to 21.

But, that's just my $0.02.. and for the love of god, please let's kill the MLK thread off. I don't see it going anywhere except for an unnecessary flamewar. :-(

[Michael]

Hi Grace --

If it's any comfort to you, I've yet to hear of a generation recorded in history that was praised for respecting the one before it. For example:

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." That was Socrates.

Here's the author of Genesis: "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan."

And here's Confucius: "Yuan Jang sat waiting for the Master in a sprawling position. The Master said, 'Those who when young show no respect to their elders achieve nothing worth mentioning when they grow up. And merely to live on, getting older and older, is to be a useless pest.'

And now there's Grace.

[Michael]

Lest I be misunderstood, by "And now there's Grace," I meant: "There's Grace joining the august ranks of acute observers of the human tragi-comedy."

Though someone once said that the corollary to the familiar "Youth is wasted on the young" is "What's taken for virtue in the old is often only fatigue."

[Guest]

Dude, not cool...................You haven't been here long enough to even remotely know anyone. She was offering her opinion, she has that right, just as you do. But what you cannot and will not do is start making preemptive personal attacks on someone because you do not agree. I believe an apology is in order...................

Actually "Dude" I have been around this board a long time, and if you have read even a fraction ... DELETED - ADMIN... .well sorry with sugar on top. :-({|=

And thanks for the lecture dad. :ky: :bootyshake:

[AnthonyM83]

I only scanned through the posts, but it sure seemed people were egging her on and not compensating for her age which everyone was aware of. She responded overly defensively, but people were making unusual comments, such as saying her under 21 drinking in private could reflected on her ability as a paramedic.

I know many pre-laws, pre-meds, many current police officers/sergeants, EMT students, and a LARGE majority drank underage. Most of these people are normal people who in their youth have drank. I'm sure you guys have done some mild speeding, too (which puts others in danger, unlike drinking). Speeding is a crime cops around here care far more about than an 18 year old drinking in private.

It seemed like people were ganging up on her (probably because of past reputation?) on technicalities. If she instead had a cup of wine with dinner with her parents during special holiday dinners, I doubt people would be going off about how it's TECHNICALLY illegal. It seemed like people were (slightly desperate) reaching for ways to come down on her.

Maybe this was deserved because of past threads. I don't know. I know she WAS acting childishly, but anecdotal threads like this don't really prove a point. It's not like the regular 18yros who DON'T cause waves will get recognized. They probably won't even tell people their age on the sites.

As far as 18yro paramedics, some can do the job quite properly (those exceptions you talked about), so only hire those exceptions, then.

[Asysin2leads]

Anthony, the point is this. When you are a paramedic student, you are (or at least should be) held to a certain standard. The paramedic is given so many powers and abilities in the field that trust me, you only want people of the highest standards in that position.

There's a reason that in the police academy and fire academy they brow beat you on your conduct. It's a weeding out procedure. My paramedic class was set up very similarly. We were to arrive at 6 p.m. at the class room, at 6:05 we were marked late, at 6:15 we were marked absent. We were to arrive at the ER with ties, button up shoes, lab coats, and proper equipment. We were checked on it every day. Anything missing and we were sent home and the rotation didn't count. It was one of the toughest years of my life, but at the end I was a better person and a better paramedic for what I went through.

The reason the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc. beats the crap out of their recruits is to turn them into responsible people who can be relied on. I think the same should be done for people entering into the field of paramedicine. Any certification below it, I don't hold to the same standards, but the paramedic, as one of my instructors used to say, might as well have a '00' before their certification number because it is basically a license to kill.

On the same site, under a different thread, another person posted a comment under the debate of whether basics should start IVs or not (NO!), saying he didn't see what the big deal was because he was a basic and started IVs all the time. That's why the type of attitude in question is so dangerous in medicine, "Yeah, I know I shouldn't drink while I'm underage, BUT... leads very quickly to 'Yeah, I know I shouldn't start IVs out side of my scope of practice, BUT... and 'Yeah, I know I shouldn't drive this fast BUT... or 'Yeah, I shouldn't carry a gun with me, BUT..." These are real things I've seen real people who are employed in this field do or say at some point, and those are not people you want with your family members.

People can run their units the way they run their units. But as for me, when I'm working on my patients, I'm going to do everything that is asked and expected of me, to the best of my abilities, and only for the single reason because I said I would. Yes, I was a Boy Scout at one point, no you can't see me in my uniform.