Pesky bystanders and stupid people who want to take CPR...

[Nate]

I've never had to be a "dick" when I was on at the city. There is a nice way of getting your way when you need it and doing it with out being rude. Just use really big words they don't know.

[xselerate]

So do paramedics - they need doctors to work under also. Let's not forget that. Where do you think you get your orders from? Where do you think you get your protocols from. You also have to have a medical Doctor to be your service's medical director.

Standing orders are approved by physicians from where I come from so yes you do work under a doctor.

Okay... perhaps I was not completly clear in this regard. We operate under a physicians license, obviously, but other medical personell who also work under physicians licenses still have no athority outside there work enviornment where as the street is our work enviornment. A nurse can not do didly squat without her doc over her sholder. I thought this would have been obvious and that's why I didn't mention it.

Anyone and everyone that you come into contact with is a customer. I know, I had a hard time listening through that seminar as well.

That was true when I was working private transport where we wanted to keep our customers calling. I'm sorry but when someone calls 911 and I show up I'm there for the patient, not the general public that wants to get in my way. I'll do my best to treat everyone with respect but I won't extend myself if they give me any problem. I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on this. And just so you know... if it were your family I was called for and someone made it difficult for me to take complete and total care for them I would damn sure get them removed real quick... and I won't waste time with plesentries after my initial "please let me take it from here".

[Nate]

Okay... perhaps I was not completly clear in this regard. We operate under a physicians license, obviously, but other medical personell who also work under physicians licenses still have no athority outside there work enviornment where as the street is our work enviornment. A nurse can not do didly squat without her doc over her sholder. I thought this would have been obvious and that's why I didn't mention it.

It doesn't mean that she might not be able to help you. She might not be able to help on that call, but maybe one day when your in need she will be the one that remembers that EMT on that one day who was nice to her and thanked her for her help and let her assist him. We had a guy with a similar situation, he blew a nurse off that he thought was "dumb." Then he went to nursing school, became a very good nurse, but could never make charge nurse because the nurse he blew off was over the hospital. What goes around, comes around.

That was true when I was working private transport where we wanted to keep our customers calling. I'm sorry but when someone calls 911 and I show up I'm there for the patient, not the general public that wants to get in my way. I'll do my best to treat everyone with respect but I won't extend myself if they give me any problem. I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on this. And just so you know... if it were your family I was called for and someone made it difficult for me to take complete and total care for them I would damn sure get them removed real quick... and I won't waste time with plesentries after my initial "please let me take it from here".

I work 911 for a city service and have never found the reason to be flat out rude to someone. The line I use the most is this; "sir, could you please go with this officer/EMT/firefighter so that he can get your information for the report?" It gets them out of my ambulance, it frees me up, and it doesn't leave a bad taste in their mouth.

[xselerate]

ok nate... i'll give you this one.... almost....

I still have little tolerane for off duty medical personell that dont understand there place and mine outside the hospital. They should simple know better.

Your method of getting rid of people who are in your way is pretty good, I'll admit. After thinking it over I even use this tactic myself often, and I'll continue doing so. But when your way dosn't work it's still nice to know I can have the cop pull out the baton

[cotjockey]

It doesn't mean that she might not be able to help you. She might not be able to help on that call, but maybe one day when your in need she will be the one that remembers that EMT on that one day who was nice to her and thanked her for her help and let her assist him. We had a guy with a similar situation, he blew a nurse off that he thought was "dumb." Then he went to nursing school, became a very good nurse, but could never make charge nurse because the nurse he blew off was over the hospital. What goes around, comes around.

It's not that I didn't appreciate what the RN did...it was just time for people who had crazy things like glucometers and IVs and meds to take over. It seems to me that once you have more definitive care, bystanders or EMS or whatever needs to step out. There was nothing more she could do.

If a nurse doesn't promote someone to a charge position simply because that person blew them off once, they are wrong. She should have realized that she was out of her element and he was in his...just like I wouldn't walk into L&D and try to run the show, nurses with no EMS experience, should not try to run the show on an EMS scene. Once I get my patient to the ER or L&D or where ever, they are no longer my patient...in the field, once EMS shows up, the patient belongs to EMS.

In my case it was obvious that the RN either didn't know what she was doing or simply had one of those moments where she just wasn't thinking...she asked what I was going to do with the D50 and then questioned whether it was OK for us to do what we were doing. Again, it makes us look bad when someone who is well known in the community as a medical professional questions our practices. Before I knew better I would have put more faith in the RN than the EMTs if it were my family member...if she questioned what they were doing I would wonder if the EMTs really knew what they were doing.

I don't deny that I could have handled it differently. Every few years the fire department / rescue service runs an article in the newspaper telling what we do, what kind of training we have, how citizens can help...I think it is time some someone to write an article.

[Ridryder 911]

I try to use the "golden rule".. Funny, how we posted about stopping off duty on how many responded they.. I will not. Although, I have never acted to get the way .. usually the opposite, glad to leave ASAP..

Usually, (although there is always the abnormal) placing to work.. like someone said get a set of v.s. etc.. usually, works. even physicians I inform I working under the direct orders of the physician or medical control. In which unless they are a advanced practitioner do not have a license to perform.

As far as customer service, all people are all our customers.. patient, family, potential patients.. etc.. Again, the Golden Rule...

Rule # 1 in medical school on Malpractice is ... If they like you the chances of them suing you is very slim...keep them happy & tx . appropriately.

Be safe,

R/R 911

[pyroknight]

The overarching problem here is one that has been previously mentioned: too many people (many health care providers among them) have NO IDEA what our scope of practice / skills are. EMS has done an exceedingly poor job of educating our fellow health care workers (let alone John Q. Public) about what we actually DO.

That being said, it never hurts to be as cordial as possible. My recommendation would be a statement like "I appreciate your willingness to help, but my crew and I have the equipment and skill to assist this patient if you will kindly step aside and let us care for her. I would be happy to discuss our patient care with you later when not in the middle of an emergency situation, but right now I need to take care of this patient."

[MedicNorth]

Frequently I see in various threads people complaining that EMS does not get the respect and recognition it deserves from the public. This is an issue we need to face up to, and one of the best ways is to not "blow off" people who are willing to help. Polite is not difficult, and can go a long way towards creating a positive impression. Even if its "Can you help me out by keeping all these spectators back?", allowing people to be useful makes them feel part of the team, and they will become our best supporters.

Yes, they can be a hindrance to a smooth operation, and yes, sometimes you need to tell them that their help is not needed. This can be usually be achieved with a polite but firm "Thanks, but we have this under control."

If not, then the police or fire can intervene, but it never hurts to have people feel that their offer is appreciated. It is a lot better than having a population that ignores the plight of people in need because they simply don't care or might get blasted by the pros.

Who cares if they are potential customers? Not me. I care because they are people who care too, and are willing to step into a stressful situation to offer help.

[Dustdevil]

Completely agree with North. And it's another good reason to not put badges and cop-looking uniforms on medics. Dressing medics like medical professionals encourages them to be professional and focus on medicine, instead of getting all caught up in the "public safety" authority machismo that so many fireman wannabes love so much.

Drop the attitude, put down the Mag Lite and be a professional.