Fire service insanity, rears its ugly head...

[Just Plain Ruff]

I agree that they don't have a obligation to respond if you haven't paid your dues but for god's sake, they were right there at the scene.

Another inground swimming pool courtesy of the Monett fire department. Oh do you need water for that pool, pay your dues.

It's just wrong that they were right there and did NOTHING.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Interestingly enough, I don't really see "why" a community is required to provide fire/ems. Look at all the places in the country that still have volunteer fire and rescue organizations. The county or state does not mandate that they exist, but rather they exist because a group of people, aka "volunteers," decided they would like to provide a valuable service to their community.

A fire department has no obligation to put out your house if they receive no tax subsidy. They have an ethical obligation to save your life, but even then no government says that they have to enter your house selflessly and risk their lives.

I'm not agreeing with what they did, just playing devil's advocate.

Wrong, to a point. A community is required to name a provider of every service, or provide its own service. As a manager of specific country or area, you could make the county provider of fire service a private company 3 states over. You still have to name someone to provide unfettered service to the community.

This wasnt done here.

[Dustdevil]

Meh.... I'm with CSR on this one. I support the FD. They are a private corporation. They may pick and choose their customers according to ability to pay just like a private ambulance service, security service, lawn service, janitorial service, or any other service may do. You don't get the option to pay your insurance premiums the day after you wreck your car. Same principle here.

This guy didn't have any insurance. He didn't pay his FD dues. He never gave reasonable thought to the safety and security of his home, business, or family. He obviously is an irresponsible cretin and now he gets to pay the price. Boo hoo. The Lord helps those who helps themselves.

I imagine the FD has, as they indicated, learned the hard way that people will not pay their bills after the fact, just like a huge number of people never pay their ambo bills after the fact. And you eat up a lot of scarce cash trying to collect from them, so it simply isn't worth it.

I long ago lost count of the numbers of times I have seen paid municipal fire departments refuse to answer calls for service outside of their city limits. It happens all the time. I have watched them sit in their trucks and watch a home burn across the street because it was outside their boundaries. And of course there are all those volunteer departments who can't even muster a full crew to respond at all. So let's not sit around and believe that free-enterprise is the cuplrit here.

Is it bad PR for the FD? Sure! But no press is bad press. I'd like to see the spike on their membership chart in the month following this incident! I bet it was just the kick in the ass that several hundred families needed to write their check. Sounds like this moron FAILED to do his homework. He gambled and lost. I am unimpressed and unconcerned.

Good for the FD!

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Your disagreement is slightly flawed here.

Municipal services sometimes refuse to answer calls for service outside the city limits. You are correct. But, the all volunteer departments were dispatched as a primary provider, and attempted to solve the problem.

Might they have crew issues? Sure. But thats a whole other situation, that needs to be handled.

Everyone has a right to a primary provider. That right was not granted here. Its not like another service was coming from a farther distance, no service existed.

The arguement is not about who's going to fight it, its about if someone is willing to.

Thats a huge issue.

[Dustdevil]

Everyone has a right to a primary provider. That right was not granted here. Its not like another service was coming from a farther distance, no service existed.

I totally agree on that! I only maintain that this is a failure of the community to provide for such a provider. It is not a failure for the subscription FD to service those it has no fiduciary relationship with.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I totally agree on that! I only maintain that this is a failure of the community to provide for such a provider. It is not a failure for the subscription FD to service those it has no fiduciary relationship with.

Ok...were on the same page then.

FD...whatever. The officials of the region this resident lived in are at fault here, no one else.

[Guest]

CON:

OK besides ending a sentence on a preposition....this is all rhetoric and wrong, draw on all of the scenarios you wish, jurisdictional blah blah! Can I say BS here? Yes I will!

Funding issues when the most trusted American Hero the "Firefighter" is standing watching a guy loose his home due boundary and financial disputes. #$&<>*@!

Wait here's an scenario....you may NOT like...freeing the people from tyranny in Iraq.....wait, got insurance?

PRO.....notice the difference?

Do you not think that "F" department would have got more press by doing the best the could to help that man....and his family.

Or was that only in the Katerina and Rita Zones?

ps hey, isn't fiduciary a big word for you guys?

squinting.....so bad it hurts and yes I do have body Armour, my wings are like a shield of steel.....quoting Bat fink.

[Just Plain Ruff]

ha ha well before you start spouting grammar rules you might want to check your spelling. I found no fewer than 5 spelling and grammar errors. So before you start down the grammar card I would review your post and edit it so someone can understand it.

No reason to make personal jabs here.

Why bring Iraq into this. That argument just does not hold water in this situation.

The fact of the matter is this - the fire department was already on scene. They were making sure their subscribers homes and property would not sustain any damage. Kudos for them on that aspect. But what makes it all the more outrageous is that the homeowner offered to pay the dues yet they were unable to accept the payment due to their lack of a system to do this.

I cannot imagine a fire department that would let someone's home/garage burn down and stand around and watch it burn. This to me is unconscionable. If they were not on scene already I can see that argument but they were there on scene for crikies sake.

[csr]

Are you aware that only 2 insurance companies will pay for fire suppression services? Oh and, by the way, neither are state farm.

In my example I did not mean to imply that State Farm, or any other agency, was to pay for his fire suppression service. I was trying to compare his attempt to pay for the service while the home was on fire to paying for homeowners coverage while it was being destroyed. Same as watching the water rise up your front steps and frantically calling to apply for flood insurance. Too bad too sad. Shoulda thunk of that sooner.

The fire service has attempted time and time again to establish themselves as a billable entity in the public safety realm. It continues not to work. Why? Because in any volunteer department, your financial operations outlay is minimal, for general services.

Trucks, bunker gear, buildings, insurance, training...it all costs and is in no way minimal. This was not a public funded Volunteer service. It was a subscription service.

EMS has a duty to act for ALL 911 dispatched calls. Period. You cannot walk into a house and extend your hand to the 80 year old patient with chest pain and ask for 350 cash, or credit card. *Swipe* "thank you for using Visa Mr. Johnson, heres your Nitro"

It doesnt, and can't happen.

Any municipality has the responsibility to provide or contract with a service to provide all aspects of the public safety response. Police, fire, and EMS.

Police doesnt ask for payment before arresting your robber, EMS can't ask for payment before treatment, and fire cannot and should not be asking for "dues" before action to service the community.

They had no duty to act. They were not a "public" service and were not contracted with the municipality. They were a private, dues supported fire brigade which the homeowner neglected to join.

Think about it, put the same system in the lower class neighborhood in the inner city. We would lose half of the major cities, billing people who cant pay? Ridiculous. The public safety community needs to be able to provide service to all members of its response district, regardless of its ability to pay.

True, that would be ridiculous and in major cities that is the reason for tax payer funded paid services. That was not the case here. Again, this was not a part of the public safety community. They were a private service. Got it yet?

Provision of Emergency services, funding issues, and operating costs are not the responsibility of the general public, but the responsibility of township and city managers, and emergency services administrators. Operating costs are not the responsibility of the fire service at the scene of a working fire.

In the absence of a responsible township it is up to the individual homeowner to ensure that he has provided for this particular service.

It is no different than a rural area where a private water service puts up a tower and runs pipes to any home in an area that wishes to join so that they no longer have to dig individual water wells on their property. Later a homeowner, who has elected not to join the private water district, looses water to his home because a faulty pump on his private well. Is the private water district at fault or under obligation to provide him service? No. Same for this case of a private fire brigade not putting out a fire on the property of someone who had not paid the required dues. They were under no obligation to act.

[Just Plain Ruff]

CSR I think you are wrong but your opinion is yours.

The homeowner said that he did not know that he needed to pay dues. He says he never was told. That's not neglecting to join, it's information that he did not get.