Challenging NCLEX

[flight-lp]

I have seen several quotes lately on several boards about Paramedics chellenging the NCLEX-RN. Now I have heard of some states allowing RN's to challenge the EMT-P exam, but I have not heard of any states allowing a Paramedic to take the NCLEX without completing a school of nursing. Is there any validity to these claims or is this another case of people blowing smoke up my a%$??????

[medic429]

I'd say smoke.....

just my guess.

[Dustdevil]

Total bull$hit. You can't "challenge" the NCLEX. States don't even control that. It is a national exam with national standards. You can challenge several facets of nursing education for equivalency, allowing an abbreviated nursing education time. However, damn few medics have the education or experience necessary to do so. And those that do are not nearly as good a nurse as they would be with traditional education. Not to mention, you still have to have all the other college courses to go with that education to make up a nursing degree.

No nursing degree = no NCLEX. Period.

Just one more example of how medics know just enough to look stupid. :roll:

[Ridryder 911]

Actually, there was one state that had a loop hole that apparently allowed a few to slip through. I believe it has changed now. I agree from what I know of, there is a minimum of at least an associate degree program. True, you can test out of some the long distance nursing programs, but you still have to have an associate degree.

I know the NREMT used to allow RN's to test out for the Paramedic examination, but have changed their policy since. Just like any other profession, you will have those that can pass board exams showing that might have the minimum criteria. Again, they have some similarities, but are totally different professions and should be treated as such.

Be safe,

R/R 911

[flight-lp]

Thats what I thought, thanks guys!!!!!

Gotta get my money back for the Sally Struthers "how to be an RN in one easy lesson" course!!!!

[Canan]

Unfortunatly, I inquired that one, too, and you can't even challenge CNA (certified nurse assistance) which

is a prerequisite for nursing school at least here in my state (Utah). Untill recently, even EMT-B's could get

a distance LPN license, but that window has been shut down a few years ago as far as I know.

Dustdevil: that is some awesome cruel stuff you're posting. there is nothing wrong with anybody having some

ambitions and hopes, a lot of paramedics are excellent and would make excellent nurses (and no, I'm not one!)

I know of at least one EMT-B (not even national registry) who's become a great nurse via the previous mentioned

scenario (distance learning).

[Ridryder 911]

I can't speak for Dustdevil, but I believe what he was referring to is most medics believe that if they are good medics, this will automatically make them good nurses as well. That EMT was easy so will nursing ....Nurses (albeit they still have plenty of problems) actually finally gathered their priorities together and have a true set curriculum, testing and educational standards. Not like EMS.

Why should the nursing honor any EMT program? They are 2 different professions. That is like saying x-ray tech should be able to audit out nursing school. Remember less than 10% of nursing has anything to do with emergency or critical care. Believe it or not folks, most nurses DO NOT WANT TO TAKE CARE OF EMERGENCY or CRITICAL CARE PATIENTS ! Sorry for the shouting, but most EMT's still assume that is what nursing is about...WRONG!

EMS is too fragmented with way too many levels, (One EMS magazine stated > 150 acronyms) and no true set of standards of education or even a "true " national test. There are way too many ego's and not enough education in EMS. If our educator's and EMS administrators, governing bodies was required to have an education prior to their appointment then we would had seen some progressive changes.

EMS is still way too "Mother, Jugs & Speed" style with certifications and EMS administrators and EMS Trainers being appointed to those positions because of their field knowledge, not their expertise in those areas. Forty years later and still things continue to be the same.... because the people in EMS refuse to mature and allow the profession to grow. I can assure you, if it was harder to become an EMT (education level, spending the time and money) like other health careers, there would not be as many leaving. It is too easy to become an EMT or Paramedic. Short and simple.

Be safe,

R/R 911

[Dustdevil]

Thats what I thought, thanks guys!!!!!

I just want to clarify that my last comment was not aimed at you.

After reading it again, it looks like I was referring to you. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Canan, I don't know exactly what I said that you took exception to. But if your friend finished the Excelsior program, then he is the rare exception and a LOT smarter and more motivated than the average EMT in this country. That means his chances of becoming a great nurse are excellent. But I stand by my statement that he would have become a better nurse faster through traditional education. There is absolutely no two ways about that. Rid is entirely correct. There are not enough similarities between the two professions to put even an experienced paramedic significantly ahead of the game in nursing education. And let's face it; an EMT doesn't know dick that is going to help him in nursing school.

Excelsior is a great program. And in my experience, anybody who actually finishes it is a sharp cookie with a lot of maturity and motivation. But the fact remains that you miss out on a tonne of clinical experience, and it becomes VERY obvious when you start working as a nurse.

[Ridryder 911]

I go to school with a couple of Exclusior graduates. They are sharp... they also will tell you that they had to study their anus off as well. Especially, the BSN program. Just like some say about Paramedics without experience of an EMT, the same with these nurses, they had to grab on learn faster and harder. Most will tell you that they wished they would had went through traditional programs for the clinical phase.

It is not that it can't be done, just very difficult. If you think EMT or medic school was difficult, I would not suggest that type of program.

Good luck,

R/R 911

[Dustdevil]

It is not that it can't be done, just very difficult. If you think EMT or medic school was difficult, I would not suggest that type of program.

Exactly. The program is popular because so many people are under the mistaken impression that it is easier than nursing school. HA!! Much harder. There is also the weird belief that it is shorter than nursing school. Ha again! Takes most people significantly longer to complete Excelsior than traditional nursing school.

About the only thing easier (or faster) about Excelsior is getting in. Any idiot can get into Excelsior without having to compete with other people's GPA's. Problem is, those people can't finish Excelsior anyhow, so they waste their time and money.

Big props to anybody who graduates from Excelsior. It's hard as hell. But the truth is the percentage of people who finish the program after starting it is dismal. In fact, it's right on par with the number of number of medics who say they are going to go to medical school that never make it. :lol

My advice to anybody with either of those goals is to shut up about it so you don't look like a bigger tool when you fail.