Should Volunteer Squads Be Eliminated ?

[THUMPER1156]

I think there is a need for volunteers.There are alot of "card carriers'' in the business.

If everyone that holds a card answers one call most of them (if not all) would be covered.

It seems that third party billing is taken over. There are good & bad points in runnung only ''all paid crews''.Don't get me wrong; ems is my career (by choice).I just think theres way too many''para-gods'' out there .Yes money is what we need to get by in this world .

If everybody felt they weren't goin on a call if they didn't get paid,there would be alot of people dead.I'm not putting down paid or volunteers. I just think if you say your going to do something ,you should do it. If you don't like helping others, this is not for you.How would you feel if you or a family member called for help & nobody came........

Just my opinion nothing personal :wink:

[akflightmedic]

If everyone that was able to...

fostered a child, we would have no kids without the love of a family

filled a pothole, all roads would be smooth

hauled their own trash, we wouldnt have noisy trucks in our neighborhood at 0700 on our off day

But you don't see any of these things being done by volunteers. They all collect money for their services. I have fostered, I know. the state paid me monthly. It didnt cover everything but they did pay.

EMS needs to be a paid profession. Not saying volunteers are unprofessional, but saying it needs to be paid. There are very few areas left that do not have the tax base to support a paid service. Why do towns and cities not go paid? Because there are volunteers there that have always done it for free. They sure seem to have the money to pay garbagemen and road crews, so why not EMS? A paid system could allow vollies but the local EMS system should never rely totally on them. What happens when the pool dries up, or people are just away because they have a life?

This is not an issue of paragods as mentioned. The paid system could be all Basics for all I care but at least it is a system set up and in place...not people responding POV from home to the station or to the scene. As long as we continue to do this, we resemble a bunch of Ricky Rescues and shortchange ourselves in the eyes of the professional world.

I like helping others, that is why I tolerate the low pay...but, I do need to be paid. I got to eat as well.

And volunteering is not about being all helpful and doing the community a service, people volunteer to feel good about themselves. Look up the definition. People brag about their vollie affiliations cause they look better to other people. It is all about stroking your own ego and making yourself feel good. If you didnt feel good after doing it, you wouldnt do it in the first place. I am not saying all vollies are of this mentality, but think about it. If no one volunteered, they would be forced to implement a paid system. That would do several things for your community you care so deeply about. First, it would ensure rapid care at all times, second, it would create jobs for your town.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I think there is a need for volunteers.There are alot of "card carriers'' in the business.

If everyone that holds a card answers one call most of them (if not all) would be covered.

It seems that third party billing is taken over. There are good & bad points in runnung only ''all paid crews''.Don't get me wrong; ems is my career (by choice).I just think theres way too many''para-gods'' out there .Yes money is what we need to get by in this world .

If everybody felt they weren't goin on a call if they didn't get paid,there would be alot of people dead.I'm not putting down paid or volunteers. I just think if you say your going to do something ,you should do it. If you don't like helping others, this is not for you.How would you feel if you or a family member called for help & nobody came........

Just my opinion nothing personal :wink:

[marq=left:ea622dfe29]

YES, ELIMINATE THEM ALL [/marq:ea622dfe29]

hows that?

[stndmedic]

I TOTALLY AGREE W/ AKFLIGHT. UNFORTUANETLY I POSTED MY RESPONSE TO THUMPERS RANT IN "AM I TOO OLD". THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT LIVING IN THE PAST. ONCE UPON A TIME VOLUNTEERS EXSISTED AND IT WORKED. NOW WITH THE ADVANCED MEDICAL PROCEDURES, THE SIMPLE FACT THAT OUR RIGS ROLLING ED'S WE NEED TO ADDRESSTHE NECCESITY FOR "HOBBYIST". I WORK ON AN ALS UNIT. WE ARE CAPLE OF HANDLING ALL THE POOP YOU CAN THROW AT US AS WELL AS BEING A MOBILE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT. IF YOU NEED THIS TYPE OF CARE, YOU ARE IN NEED OF SOMEONE WHO DOES THIS ON A REGULAR BASIS. NOT SOMEONE WHO IS GIVING BACK ONCE AND WHILE. YOU ARE RIGHT THERE ARE PARA-GODS OUT THERE, WE ARE SLOWLY BUT SURELY MAKING EVERY ATTEMPT TO ELIMINATE THOSE BURDENS TO OUR CRAFT. BUT LIKE ANY OTHER THERE ARE THOSE BAD APPLES...BUT, THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PARA-GODS AND HOBBYIST. FORTUANTLEY THEY GET WEEDED OUT! MY BEST ADVICE FOR YOU IS GAIN SOME SELF RESPECT AS A PAID EMS'ER AND PICK A SIDE OR BE AN ADVOCATE TO WORK THE TWO TOGETHER. BY THE WAY I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WITH A CARD THAT WOULD REFER TO THEMSELVES AS AN AMBULANCE DRIVER!!

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I TOTALLY AGREE W/ AKFLIGHT. UNFORTUANETLY I POSTED MY RESPONSE TO THUMPERS RANT IN "AM I TOO OLD". THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT LIVING IN THE PAST. ONCE UPON A TIME VOLUNTEERS EXSISTED AND IT WORKED. NOW WITH THE ADVANCED MEDICAL PROCEDURES, THE SIMPLE FACT THAT OUR RIGS ROLLING ED'S WE NEED TO ADDRESSTHE NECCESITY FOR "HOBBYIST". I WORK ON AN ALS UNIT. WE ARE CAPLE OF HANDLING ALL THE POOP YOU CAN THROW AT US AS WELL AS BEING A MOBILE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT. IF YOU NEED THIS TYPE OF CARE, YOU ARE IN NEED OF SOMEONE WHO DOES THIS ON A REGULAR BASIS. NOT SOMEONE WHO IS GIVING BACK ONCE AND WHILE. YOU ARE RIGHT THERE ARE PARA-GODS OUT THERE, WE ARE SLOWLY BUT SURELY MAKING EVERY ATTEMPT TO ELIMINATE THOSE BURDENS TO OUR CRAFT. BUT LIKE ANY OTHER THERE ARE THOSE BAD APPLES...BUT, THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PARA-GODS AND HOBBYIST. FORTUANTLEY THEY GET WEEDED OUT! MY BEST ADVICE FOR YOU IS GAIN SOME SELF RESPECT AS A PAID EMS'ER AND PICK A SIDE OR BE AN ADVOCATE TO WORK THE TWO TOGETHER. BY THE WAY I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WITH A CARD THAT WOULD REFER TO THEMSELVES AS AN AMBULANCE DRIVER!!

Caps Lock, spelling, and appropriate punctuation. All im saying.

[nsmedic393]

If everyone that was able to...

fostered a child, we would have no kids without the love of a family

filled a pothole, all roads would be smooth

hauled their own trash, we wouldnt have noisy trucks in our neighborhood at 0700 on our off day

But you don't see any of these things being done by volunteers. They all collect money for their services. I have fostered, I know. the state paid me monthly. It didnt cover everything but they did pay.

EMS needs to be a paid profession. Not saying volunteers are unprofessional, but saying it needs to be paid. There are very few areas left that do not have the tax base to support a paid service. Why do towns and cities not go paid? Because there are volunteers there that have always done it for free. They sure seem to have the money to pay garbagemen and road crews, so why not EMS? A paid system could allow vollies but the local EMS system should never rely totally on them. What happens when the pool dries up, or people are just away because they have a life?

This is not an issue of paragods as mentioned. The paid system could be all Basics for all I care but at least it is a system set up and in place...not people responding POV from home to the station or to the scene. As long as we continue to do this, we resemble a bunch of Ricky Rescues and shortchange ourselves in the eyes of the professional world.

I like helping others, that is why I tolerate the low pay...but, I do need to be paid. I got to eat as well.

And volunteering is not about being all helpful and doing the community a service, people volunteer to feel good about themselves. Look up the definition. People brag about their vollie affiliations cause they look better to other people. It is all about stroking your own ego and making yourself feel good. If you didnt feel good after doing it, you wouldnt do it in the first place. I am not saying all vollies are of this mentality, but think about it. If no one volunteered, they would be forced to implement a paid system. That would do several things for your community you care so deeply about. First, it would ensure rapid care at all times, second, it would create jobs for your town.

Here, Here...

The people who pick up the garbage, plow the roads, drive the busses, sweep the streets, fill potholes, answer phones at city all. etc are all paid. Do you think any of theose are less or more important than EMS? I have never expreienced a volly ems system. Even before our provincial system EMS was run by the funeral homes, they were not paid well but they were paid. It just doesn't make sense for me to have volunteers, but then again it doesn;t make sense to me to put thousands of dollars from your own pocket into lighting your POV like a firetruck.

The thing to remember is; why would any town/municipality decide on their own to pay for a service they are already getting for free?

[Katee]

EMS needs to be a paid profession. Not saying volunteers are unprofessional, but saying it needs to be paid.

Show me the money baby!

If it were more of a paid profession around here, we'd have more of em', that's for sure.

[bandaidpatrol]

What exactly is the problem with them? New Jersey seems to be the only state that hates their volunteers. Something about garbagemen driving the ambulance.

In the early days, we saw very few "Volunteer Ambulances". It didn't start out with volunteers exclusively, as the fire service in fact, did. It started with paid rig drivers, surgeons and nurses in wars and from hospitals. In the 40's and 50's, my childhood, we had funeral homes with paid drivers and attendants. Hospitals paid their ambulance personnel, as did fire departments. But there were very few volunteers, locally, as it was very expensive, and very little money could be made.

The problem was, there were too many emergencies, not enough ambulances. We only took calls where there was not a funeral planned or in progress. While there was, we shut off the phone. In the city, we started the shift working our way through a list. People had called hours before on some occasions, just because there were only a dozen ambulances for hundreds of thousands of residents. Hospitals may have had one or two, but covered vast areas. We would run no calls on Monday, two on tuesday, fifteen on wednesday, funerals on Thursdays and Fridays, then not get a wink of sleep all weekend. The best thing that ever happened to us was the so called volunteer "Competition". In the 60's and 70's, they popped up all over the place. Some were horrible, others were the model for the future of EMS. Better equipped than the city, because we had no money, and no smarts and they did. We were getting our equipment from the warehouse at the docks i.e. Korean War Surplus. The Sons of the American Legion had an ambulance, my brother drove their ambulance every Wednesday & Sunday from 6am-6pm. The fire company wanted an ambulance, but couldn't afford it, but the ladies auxillary had one. My mother was their recording secretary. In the end, I sold off our paid ambulance in 83, to a volunteer service. They had more people, more time, and had the oppurtunity to make some more money.

Another problem, when it comes to there being too few ambulances; distance and time. Given tax values, if you got rid of all the volunteer ambulances, and replaced every 5 "squads" with 1 paid service... How far would the average American be from an ambulance? The neartest paid service to me is at the hospital, a distance of nearly 62 miles. The nearest volunteer ambulance is at the Fire House, about a quarter mile down the road. If I were having a heart attack, could I survive the wait for an ambulance, 62 miles away? If the local "squad" is out, there's another about ten miles away, and another about twenty.

But sixty-two miles? Good thing I already had my casket picked out...

-The opinion of a 33 Year Union Man

[stndmedic]

Caps Lock, spelling, and appropriate punctuation. All im saying.

FOR REAL!! grade and fix it if you have that kinda time pal! not a thesis just a commentary. glorified text msg. if you will.

[akflightmedic]

As I stated and someone else did before me, there are very few areas left that need a vollie service. Yours may be one of them. But I assure you if there was no ambulance service provided in your area, Rural Metro or AMR would find a way to be there overnight.

But to further touch on your statement, you imply that there is not a significant tax base to fund a service. Not true. I know of several systems that are a conglomerate of different counties or towns. They pooled their resources to make it happen. It is doable.

Volunteers are dwindling, so you need to make preparations for the days when there are not enough to help you when you have the oh so dreaded heart attack.

I had personal experience with an all volunteer area. During hunting season you could forget about getting help or manpower in a timely fashion. It was awkward never knowing if people were actually coming. Just because you call doesnt mean they are coming in a volunteer system. We would end up with 20 people on a stubbed toe and 2 on a cardiac arrest. This was not only observed with this particular organization but many systems that I have been around. What I have observed at every volunteer station however, is there is one core group that keeps the place afloat. These die hards make it work, which is wrong, because then they start planning their life around the volunteer system. Eventually they have no life because "they are needed". If they didnt do it, no one else would. It is unfair to these people. Eventually, they burn out. Then you have lost the core. What do you do now?

As for the standards of the vollie agency, I always had plenty of people willing to drive. When it came to furthering their education, they werent interested. They felt their being there and helping drive was sufficient enough. Continuing education was a joke, as well as training nights.

You can not say this was limited to one area or one agency. I witnessed this behavior in 4 different states and in about 15 different agencies. It was the same in SC, FL,LA, and Alaska. Different place, same story.