Ridryder 911 Posted April 16, 2006 Posted April 16, 2006 Actually it NOT an oil welled machine, unless you have not been reading the post, which is obvious. What is your answer when your run volume increases by 3 fold ? As well, you describe Volunteer is not the problem, I totally disagree. Curriculum changes in 1993 was made because of concern of "making it to difficult" to maintain status quo and educational standards on the volunteer systems. This again was evidenced again in 2005 on the National Scope of Practice, again with the same ideology of "making to difficult" on the volunteer systems. How does the effect EMS systems and even patient care ? Simple, educational standards has been diluted, advancement of educational standards have been fought by special interest groups prohibiting required standards of EMT levels. I have yet seen any rebuttal of this. I can cite the Basic Curriculum studies : D.O.T. /NHSA: Montana and Pittsburgh Basic EMT Studies 1990-1992 Again, my outraged is .. the concern of the system, NOT the PATIENT. Does no one give a damn about the patient care ? Obviously our "higher be's" must not. Convinced that the feelings of people performing care, and traditions as well as "buckling down " to special interest groups (volunteer agencies) is more important than the care the patient receives is grossly incompetent, and they should hang their head in shame to allow it to continue. Oh, by the way EMS is still not considered a profession (nor has it ever) . Try getting a loan, student grant or even money for EMS research. It is still considered a technical trade.(Blue collar) For it to be a true profession, it must require at least a collegiate education level , and it must be presented to have an high end profession level.. i.e doctorate or highest level possible. i.e engineer, attorney, physician, etc. Even Nursing is now considered a professional level with the Doctorate level and research capability. R/r 911
Dustdevil Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 I hope I can get this to post this time!! Volunteer=hobby according to Dust. So, Paramedic who works for paid department losses his profession when he comes and volunteers? So a doctor who Volunteers with a clinic or Dr's with out Borders is no longer a professional, he is a hobbyist? You should have saved your time, Sarge. I already covered that in my last post, which said: Are there professional volunteers out there? Sure. They would be the ones who actually work professionally in EMS and volunteer on the side. You got yourself all worked up over nothing. When referring to volunteers, we mean just that; volunteers. We're not talking about professionals moonlighting on the side. When you combine the to for the sake of your argument, you invalidate your argument.
TTLWHKR Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Should Volunteer Squads Be Eliminated ? I'm stepping in late in the game. So, I guess it all depends on three things: 1. Location 2. Location 3. Location Urban areas, 15-20K plus in populations.. Then yes, the theory of the volunteer service should be phased out, and people should be paid to staff 24/7. The actual people who do it are most likely no different than you or I. Rural areas 5-12K plus in populations.. Guess it depends on the call volume and response statistics. The local EMS team here has some kick ass rigs. Everyone had a hurst tool, ladder, SCBA, TIC & Rope gear. It's own little self supporting rescue. They staff two of the four rigs 24/7, with no paid crews. Of course their call volume and the tax base doesn't warrant having more than one paid shift. So they also run a MICU. Less than 5K. Don't see any problem with that, as long as they respond in a reasonable amount of time. i.e. less than six minutes.
cosgrojo Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 We keep going round and round on this thread, and every time that someone comes in late or doesn't read the whole thread, we go round and round again..... In a perfect world, volunteers would be eliminated to pave the way for full-time personnel to get paid and make a living and support their families in the industry of their choosing. In a perfect world education levels would be increased to the point where we can justify our assertion that we are professionals. NO ONE is saying that volunteers ar evil or stupid or worthless.... we are saying that the volunteer is counterproductive to advancing the industry of EMS. We cannot move forward in the hearts and minds of the public and the purse-holders if they believe that there are people that will do it for free. When the public views us as a taxi service, if the public sees us working our day job at the local A&P and then working their mom up for Diff breathing, we get no-where. I still don't know why people wouldn't prefer to get paid. Insist on getting paid..... if you don't want to quit your normal profession, sign on per-diem at an ambulance company to keep your skills up.... and get paid..... And create jobs, and help friends support their families, and ostensibly improving the economy! HEAR THAT!!!! QUIT VOLUNTEERING AND FIX THE ECONOMY!!!!! See how easy it is?
Ridryder 911 Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Okay... I guess everyone can agree.. to disagree.. maybe time for this thread to die ! R/r 911
Asysin2leads Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 > NO ONE is saying that volunteers ar evil or stupid or worthless.... Except, of course, for that one post where Dustdevil said "Volunteers are evil, stupid, and worthless."
tinman694 Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 > NO ONE is saying that volunteers ar evil or stupid or worthless.... Except, of course, for that one post where Dustdevil said "Volunteers are evil, stupid, and worthless." Hmmm....Then what does that say about Dustdevil then? Had to say it!!!
Nate Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 We keep going round and round on this thread, and every time that someone comes in late or doesn't read the whole thread, we go round and round again..... In a perfect world, volunteers would be eliminated to pave the way for full-time personnel to get paid and make a living and support their families in the industry of their choosing. In a perfect world education levels would be increased to the point where we can justify our assertion that we are professionals. NO ONE is saying that volunteers ar evil or stupid or worthless.... we are saying that the volunteer is counterproductive to advancing the industry of EMS. We cannot move forward in the hearts and minds of the public and the purse-holders if they believe that there are people that will do it for free. When the public views us as a taxi service, if the public sees us working our day job at the local A&P and then working their mom up for Diff breathing, we get no-where. I still don't know why people wouldn't prefer to get paid. Insist on getting paid..... if you don't want to quit your normal profession, sign on per-diem at an ambulance company to keep your skills up.... and get paid..... And create jobs, and help friends support their families, and ostensibly improving the economy! HEAR THAT!!!! QUIT VOLUNTEERING AND FIX THE ECONOMY!!!!! See how easy it is? I agree 100%, but tell that all of the people who fear their "club" being taken away from them. I remember how hard the fight was when the idea of making all Texas firefighters required to be certified as an EMT-B.
cdemt5710 Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Just want to defend myself. I was quoting the person who originally said 'volunteers are the death of..." on the first page of this topic. I am a volunteer and am grateful that we have a kick ass department with highly skilled providers. I totally appreciate the career EMS personnel in our surrounding area and train and work with them regularly. And will reiterate..... it is an evolving profession. And evolution takes time. I am naive. Until now I had no idea that there are cities out there that have a solid tax base and still choose not to have paid EMS or Fire services. Our town of 2500 residents is working toward developing a paid department. Slowly. In the meantime our EMTs and Firefighters continue to go to our paying jobs and then spend much of our free time keeping our skills up and training. I will be thrilled when I begin receiving a paycheck for the calls I go on. And proud as I am of the training and education I have worked hard to acquire, I can see I will have to be careful who I share that pride with. What a shame that is. What about directing all your angst at the system which is so obviously flawed. Somehow blaming the people who are filling the niche created by the screwed up system seems counterproductive. Effect a change by lobbying in the places where your well thought out ideas will make an impact. Get together with your fellow EMS providers and develop and present your information and a plan that will work. Its understandable that you feel the need to vent, but maybe you could take all that energy and do something constructive with it. Like work to develop educational standards that raise you to the level of "Professional". However you choose to adress this will affect the climate in which the EMTs that follow you will work.
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