Should Volunteer Squads Be Eliminated ?

[Dustdevil]

What about directing all your angst at the system which is so obviously flawed. Somehow blaming the people who are filling the niche created by the screwed up system seems counterproductive. Effect a change by lobbying in the places where your well thought out ideas will make an impact. Get together with your fellow EMS providers and develop and present your information and a plan that will work.

Yes, you are definitely naive!

We ARE presenting a plan that will work. The plan is this: No more volunteers = no more free labour. No more free labour = no more free EMS. No more free EMS = paid and professional EMS. It is the most sure-fire workable plan there is. Now if all the wankers will just cooperate.

But they won't, because they are selfish and more interested in their own hobby than the good of their community.

[kevkei]

If there was anything I learned at a CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear) course, it was: "The solution to polution is dilution."

Contralaterally, the more 'card carrying people' and the more 'volunteers' (polution)you have, the more diluted the workforce is (supply and demand) and the less you can demand as a profession (solution) and as employee's. Yes there may be a need for volunteers on a few and very isolated cases, but to justify volunteer services beacuse the cost can't be supported is false.

[SSG G-man]

Yes, you are definitely naive!

We ARE presenting a plan that will work. The plan is this: No more volunteers = no more free labour. No more free labour = no more free EMS. No more free EMS = paid and professional EMS. It is the most sure-fire workable plan there is. Now if all the wankers will just cooperate.

But they won't, because they are selfish and more interested in their own hobby than the good of their community.

I may be wrong (IT happens), but I think that the point was to quit busting the chops of the Volunteers on this website and go into the "world" an lobby the folks that can make a difference. You can argue with me until you are blue in the face that I am a job stealing, unprofessional, not worthy of being on an ambulance Volunteer EMT-B. That will not make the county I live create a paid work force. This needs to get to city councils, state legislatures etc if you want to make a difference. I think that was the point.

Sarge, out.

[nsmedic393]

You can argue with me until you are blue in the face that I am a job stealing, unprofessional, not worthy of being on an ambulance Volunteer EMT-B. That will not make the county I live create a paid work force.

Arguing about it will not make a difference, but if you and all your volly buddies walked off the job for a day or two it would probably go a long way towards getting some paid people.

Try standing up for yourself. We went out on strike six years ago, guess how long it lasted before we got our raise? Less than eight hours and we were back in the trucks with a brand new contract.

You guys are your own worst enemy, maybe there should be a professional association or something to get everybody organised.

[SSG G-man]

Arguing about it will not make a difference, but if you and all your volly buddies walked off the job for a day or two it would probably go a long way towards getting some paid people.

Try standing up for yourself. We went out on strike six years ago, guess how long it lasted before we got our raise? Less than eight hours and we were back in the trucks with a brand new contract.

You guys are your own worst enemy, maybe there should be a professional association or something to get everybody organised.

I am not my own worst enemy. I enjoy being a volunteer. I have a career as a Soldier for now, and since I have recently discovered what I want to do for my second career, I am a volunteer. At least I can continue to get experience, while I help people until the county pushes us out for paid, or until I retire and take a paid job somewhere.

We do have some paid people in the county and the program is expanding. the point I was making was in reference to some previous posts, one of which I quoted.

Sarge

[nsmedic393]

I am not my own worst enemy. I enjoy being a volunteer. I have a career as a Soldier for now, and since I have recently discovered what I want to do for my second career, I am a volunteer. At least I can continue to get experience, while I help people until the county pushes us out for paid, or until I retire and take a paid job somewhere.

Volunteering as an EMT is not a career. Getting experience and helping people is a concern of yours not of the patients who deserve a paid EMS system. But perhaps the title of your BLOG says it all " a voluntary life".

It might be considered nosy, but why not strive to be on a paid EMS system? Do you engoy chasing jobs at six flags?

[Dustdevil]

I may be wrong (IT happens), but I think that the point was to quit busting the chops of the Volunteers on this website and go into the "world" an lobby the folks that can make a difference.

Nope. Sorry. Cdemt asked for a plan that was workable. Your plan has been tried for the last thirty years, and it has failed miserably. "Folks" can't be lobbied to know the difference between an EMT and a Paramedic, much less the difference between a 6 minute response time and a fifteen minute response time. So long as there are warm bodies in the ranks talking a bunch of self-serving crap about "dedication," they ignorantly assumed they are covered. Hell, we can't even "lobby" most medics to understand the difference! Sarge, you're honestly too smart to believe in your own plan here. A body is a body to "folks."

You can argue with me until you are blue in the face that I am a job stealing, unprofessional, not worthy of being on an ambulance Volunteer EMT-B.

Why does it keep coming back to this dishonest argument, Sarge? I have never made any remark critical of your medical competence. It is simply not the issue. It is about you robbing your community of assured full-time coverage just so you have a hobby. I don't care how good you are at your hobby. You might be the best in the state. Again, it is irrelevant. You are just one man with limited time to provide and other priorities that ultimately overshadow full-time participation in your hobby.

That will not make the county I live create a paid work force. This needs to get to city councils, state legislatures etc if you want to make a difference. I think that was the point.

The point is pointless. And naive. And, quite frankly, either dishonest or ignorant. You know better. You and your fellow volunteers aren't being utilised. You're being used. You're not giving anything to your community. You're giving to the politicians. You're giving them the bodies to pad their numbers and show citizens that they are being provided for without those leaders having to ever actually step up and do their job to provide a critical service that they would be -- and could be -- paying for. You are enabling those "leaders" to shirk their duty. It can be argued that, as non-EMS personnel, they simply don't know better. You do know better, so you have no excuse.

If you're so overwhelmingly obsessed with an altruistic sense of giving to your community, why don't you organise a squad of volunteers to pick up the trash, mow the lawn, clean the offices and toilets, feed the prisoners, answer the phones, and work on the cars at the county courthouse or city hall? There are a lot more people available and qualified to do that than to provide medical care. And you would save them enough money to put on a full-time staff of medics instead of relying on volunteers of questionable qualification who may or may not be available to respond at any given time. Why don't you do that? Simple. It's because you're not giving to your community because of a sense of duty. You're simply volunteering to satisfy your urge to play EMT without having to actually walk the walk.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Nope. Sorry. Cdemt asked for a plan that was workable. Your plan has been tried for the last thirty years, and it has failed miserably. "Folks" can't be lobbied to know the difference between an EMT and a Paramedic, much less the difference between a 6 minute response time and a fifteen minute response time. So long as there are warm bodies in the ranks talking a bunch of self-serving crap about "dedication," they ignorantly assumed they are covered. Hell, we can't even "lobby" most medics to understand the difference! Sarge, you're honestly too smart to believe in your own plan here. A body is a body to "folks."

Why does it keep coming back to this dishonest argument, Sarge? I have never made any remark critical of your medical competence. It is simply not the issue. It is about you robbing your community of assured full-time coverage just so you have a hobby. I don't care how good you are at your hobby. You might be the best in the state. Again, it is irrelevant. You are just one man with limited time to provide and other priorities that ultimately overshadow full-time participation in your hobby.

The point is pointless. And naive. And, quite frankly, either dishonest or ignorant. You know better. You and your fellow volunteers aren't being utilised. You're being used. You're not giving anything to your community. You're giving to the politicians. You're giving them the bodies to pad their numbers and show citizens that they are being provided for without those leaders having to ever actually step up and do their job to provide a critical service that they would be -- and could be -- paying for. You are enabling those "leaders" to shirk their duty. It can be argued that, as non-EMS personnel, they simply don't know better. You do know better, so you have no excuse.

If you're so overwhelmingly obsessed with an altruistic sense of giving to your community, why don't you organise a squad of volunteers to pick up the trash, mow the lawn, clean the offices and toilets, feed the prisoners, answer the phones, and work on the cars at the county courthouse or city hall? There are a lot more people available and qualified to do that than to provide medical care. And you would save them enough money to put on a full-time staff of medics instead of relying on volunteers of questionable qualification who may or may not be available to respond at any given time. Why don't you do that? Simple. It's because you're not giving to your community because of a sense of duty. You're simply volunteering to satisfy your urge to play EMT without having to actually walk the walk.

Word

[SSG G-man]

Volunteering as an EMT is not a career. Getting experience and helping people is a concern of yours not of the patients who deserve a paid EMS system. But perhaps the title of your BLOG says it all " a voluntary life".

It might be considered nosy, but why not strive to be on a paid EMS system? Do you enjoy chasing jobs at six flags?

I would be hard to get a job at a paid EMS system because 1-Most in this area are Fire based, so they have crazy schedules. 2-Uncle Sam would frown on #1. 3-I am trying to get some part time work with a few other ambulance agencies, but they are all transfer services.

I guess you have a problem with my blog? I Volunteered to join the National Guard almost 14 yrs ago, after September 11, 2001 I volunteered for several different missions, in 2004 I volunteered to become a full time Soldier and I now Volunteer as an EMT. In my life I have done lots of things that dust suggested, I have been member of more than one organization that "adopted -a -highway" (damn, took work from the convicts!!), I have volunteered with special Olympics, and some other organizations, so I don't need some ugly jumpsuit and a big truck with lights to make me feel good about myself. I found through some military training I enjoyed medicine and seemed to be good at it, so I found a way to put it to good use. Because of my rank and status in the military I do not have the option right now of becoming a medic, I have already fought that battle a few times.

I find it amazing that volunteers keep getting put down when they say they like to help people, makes it sound like paid folks are only after a pay check. I think it is hypocritical to say folks getting paid are in it for the patient, but volunteers are in it for themselves and their egos.

Anyway, I have said as much as I am going to say. I will volunteer until the county puts the paid crew in the station, which won't be long. I guess we should quit running, let a few folks die and it would speed up the process.

Sarge, out. For good on this topic.

[Dustdevil]

I find it amazing that volunteers keep getting put down when they say they like to help people, makes it sound like paid folks are only after a pay check. I think it is hypocritical to say folks getting paid are in it for the patient, but volunteers are in it for themselves and their egos.

You're spinning and dodging again, Sarge. It has been made crystal clear here that this is not the issue, yet you keep trying to steer it back to this red herring. It's not about motivations. And, as much as you seem to want to think so, it isn't about you. It's about the community and what they deserve. No, check that. It's not about what they deserve. It is about what they NEED to survive. I don't give a rat's arse how pure your motivations are. Your motivations don't put you on the scene within ten minutes of a cardiac arrest 24 hours a day, so people die, despite your motivations. And I don't give a rat's arse about the motivations of the paid crew either, so long as they are on the scene of my cardiac arrest with ALS within ten minutes of me going down.

Your rhetoric about motivations is crap. It's irrelevant. And it is transparently disingenuous for you keep bringing it up.