Was I wrong to open my mouth in this case??

[nsmedic393]

A while back we had a truck show up to an arrest to find they had no adult defib pads. The crew recieved a letter on their file as well as the crew that replaced the pads last and every crew in between.

[paramedicmike]

I would say if they fessed up, yes. If they play stupid then it's hearsay and you can't really go by that.

Doesn't matter. You've got the FF who's willing to admit that he noticed it four days previously. Nail him for failing to report it, nail everyone in between, and then management has to decide on our original poster.

I disagree with the notion that our poster should be suspended over this. It was reported the same day he noticed. It's not like he let it go for four days worth of shifts. And if it did not pose a threat to the operations of the monitor, as our friend claims, then I think that lessens (but not completely removes) the response management should show.

Should he have notified as soon as possible after noticing? Probably. Have we all had something for management only to have it slip our minds until later? Probably. Should you, as you asked, have kept your mouth shut? Hell no! That could only make things worse for you.

If the story he presents is verifiable by management, then at most a verbal "counseling session" for our friend here with suspensions or letters of reprimands for everyone else. Otherwise, I think he's learned a lesson in prompt communication.

And I'd be thinking payback for some of my coworkers.

Good luck!

-be safe.

[Juice]

Welcome to EMS!

the bimbo with the big boobs who farked it up to begin with.

I guess you just need to have big boobs! :downtown:

[Connie31079]

Thanks for all the replies, wether for or against me, I appreciate them all.

But the way I see it is, if the defib had been reported by the crew who originally noticed the problem on Friday night (and also noticed by the firefighter), then there wouldn't have been a problem for me to notice (or report) the following Tuesday, because the defib would have already have been changed for a new one.

Right?

But I'm being made to take the fall for the crew who didn't do thier job on Friday night, and report it to our supervisor.

They're playing stupid, and claiming everything was hunky-dory that night.

Well, it seems like nothing I do now is going to change the minds of management. They're going to discipline me as they see fit, it doesn't matter how much of a fuss I raise, so I might as well just sit here and accept my punishment.

[nsmedic393]

But the way I see it is, if the defib had been reported by the crew who originally noticed the problem on Friday night (and also noticed by the firefighter), then there wouldn't have been a problem for me to notice (or report) the following Tuesday, because the defib would have already have been changed for a new one.

Right?

But I'm being made to take the fall for the crew who didn't do thier job on Friday night, and report it to our supervisor.

First off connie, I don't work anywheres near where you do and I have only met you once so this statement is not prejudicial.

You are wrong. Your whole attitude is backwards. Your reasoning that if the crew on friday night had reported it than there would not be anything to report is wrong and your feelings that you are being made to take the fall for someone else is wrong.

You are taking the fall for your own actions. Failure to report a possibly magor problem with a main piece of gear. Had you reported the problem immediatly than you would have been in the clear and fulfilled your responsability. You did not. If it is proven that the crews previous knew about the problem and did not report it I would expect them to be punished as well.

I don't think you deserve a suspension over it but I think you need to stop passing the buck and take responsability for what you did. Admit it was an error in judgement accept your punishment and move on.

[canuck]

What about your partner who did the defib check.? If you are getting disciplined for not reporting it should they have not gotten the same discipline? Management needs to be consistent or they create hard feelings through the group.

I'm not saying you should go running to them to snitch on everyone who does something wrong, but your partner that shift has as much responsibility to report the damage as you do.

[Dustdevil]

You are taking the fall for your own actions. Failure to report a possibly magor problem with a main piece of gear.

I understand and agree with the theory that just because everybody else gets away with speeding does not relieve you of responsibility for your speeding ticket. Life isn't fair. That's a given.

However, I have to disagree with your assertion that she failed to report the "magor" problem. She did report it. She is the one employee who blew the whistle on something that four other shifts ignored or covered up. Did she immediately drop what she was doing and get on the horn to report it the very second she noticed it? No. And damn few would. But she did report it, which is the primary requirement. It is not a case of misconduct. She didn't refuse to do the right thing. She didn't blow it off as unimportant. She didn't attempt to cover it up. Without intentional misconduct or negligence resulting in a negative operational outcome, I find absolutely no reason for discipline. It serves no legitimate correctional purpose and results in a negative personnel situation in which those who did the WRONG thing are rewarded. Consequently, you will only be encouraging others to sweep things under the rug in the future, which is the worst possible solution to the problem.

Anybody who believes suspension is appropriate in this situation needs to go back to college and take some HR and supervision courses, because you aren't seeing the big picture. This isn't the criminal justice system. We are not interested in holding somebody responsible the problem. We are interested in correcting the problem. This is a living, breathing organization of human beings that have to function as a team to provide a critical service to society. Harmony and cohesion are crucial to that mission. Anything that disrupts morale and cohesion is contrary to good management. And punishing the one person who did the right thing -- albeit late -- does exactly that.

Simply remediate the situation. Make sure it is very clearly addressed with all persons even remotely involved. Stick a pen and pad of paper in all of their pockets and tell them they now have no excuse for not immediately writing down important concerns and sticking it on their clipboard where it will not be overlooked. Fix the problem and move on without creating a resentful and hostile workforce in the process.

[nsmedic393]

Its not just a matter of sticking a piece of paper on the office bulletin board. We in this particular system are required by policies to report any malfuctions immediatly to our regional fleet center by filling out an incident report and faxing it out as well as notifying the on-duty supervisor. They will then arrange for a new defib to be brought out immediatly. Something that is easier done during business hours when there is someone at the fleet center than in the evening or middle of the night.

This could possibly have been a major problem. We are medics not defib technicians. At the time of noticing that the wired were exposed, connie could not have known if the problem had just happened or if it was several days old and she could not possibly have known if the defib would operate properly if needed.

so instead of following policy and reporting the situation immediatly and getting a new defib shipped out. She forgot about the problem and failed to report it. Although she did report it eventually there is the potential that they could have gone on a call and the defib could have malfunctioned.

Disciplinary action is in order but like I said, i don't think a suspension is warranted.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Doesnt matter what happened 4 days ago, a week ago, or the like. You can only account for yourself, and the equipment on the squad now. If its found to be missing, malfunctioning or out of place, its still on YOU. YOUR responsibility to check, and maintain it.

Your failure to report it, happens. You still should be held responsible. Doesnt matter what anyone else did before you.

Check it to a learning experience, and move on.

[Dustdevil]

What about your partner who did the defib check.? If you are getting disciplined for not reporting it should they have not gotten the same discipline? Management needs to be consistent or they create hard feelings through the group.

I'm not saying you should go running to them to snitch on everyone who does something wrong, but your partner that shift has as much responsibility to report the damage as you do.

Excellent points! This is why we are considered a TEAM. E pluribus unim, and all that rot. We function, succeed, and fail as a team. You have to take opportunities like this to educate the entire team on a problem to ensure it doesn't happen again, not just find a scapegoat to punish. That's just extremely poor managerial practise there. If management's primary concern is punishing somebody and not addressing the core issue, that's not an organization I want to work for. And this is a prime example of why managerial and supervisory personnel should come from the ranks of the properly educated, not just the ranks of who's been a medic longest. Just like with teachers, the best supervisors are not necessarily those who have been a medic the longest. Personnel management and human relations are completely different fields from EMS and should be handled by appropriately educated professionals.

Its not just a matter of sticking a piece of paper on the office bulletin board. We in this particular system are required by policies to report any malfuctions immediatly to our regional fleet center by filling out an incident report and faxing it out as well as notifying the on-duty supervisor.

Agreed. The pad of paper was to write a reminder to yourself to go to the phone when you get to the station or hospital and report it through proper channels. I suppose an even better idea would be to write it on your hand so you don't lose the slip of paper. But the concept is the same. The point is to give a tangible process to people that they can hang on to as a reminder, rather than just the order to "remember to report it." That's a simple educational concept, and the point here is to educate your employees to remediate the situation, not just punish somebody.

The fact that four shifts did not report this known problem leads me to wonder if there is not a deeper organizational problem causing medics to not report matters in a timely fashion. Is it possible that when medics report equipment problems to management that they frequently go ignored? Is it possible that people are so used to their reports of equipment problems are so rarely addressed by management that they have simply given up on reporting things altogether? I have been with more than one agency where this was a problem. I've been told not to worry about the broken radio antenna, and to just stick a coat hanger in the hole. I've been told to not worry about the torrential rain leak in the patient compartment because nobody else has reported it yet. I've been told to quit bugging them about broken equipment because there is no more budget this month.

Again, when scapegoating is management's only concern, the core problem is completely overlooked and is allowed to continue and grow. Unless somebody with a little management skill steps back and takes a look at the big picture in order to identify all contributing factors, then nothing is achieved here except for pissing off the field employees, which is counterproductive.