Was I wrong to open my mouth in this case??

[Dustdevil]

Word. This is reflective of the very sad "public safety" mentality that permeates EMS. Too many cop-wannabes with their badges and MagLights who think that personnel management is analogous to being a traffic cop. It isn't. And one semester of management class would tell you so.

[Connie31079]

Thank you, jw-c152.

I appreciate your support more than you'll ever know.

I think from now on, whoever I work with, wether it be a regular partner or a casual, they're gonna think I'm neurotic, because I'm gonna check, re-check and re-re-check every piece of equipment over and over and over again, all day long.

I'm sure I'll border on obsessive-complusive, but if that's what the company wants, that's what they'll get! LOL!

And I'll generate paperwork like they've never seen! I think I'll start with the fact that last night's crew didn't clean the toilet like they were supposed to.......I wonder how they'll manage to blame that on me??

Have I cracked??..........ummmm, maybe!!

[AnatomyChick]

Connie, if they've been around much, they won't think you're neurotic... just doing a little "CYA"...

[medik8]

Dustdevil "It sounds to me like you actually disagree with James' post. What he said is that it is completely about the blame game. It's about management finding somebody to blame, and somebody accepting that blame. "

Touche.... I guess I agree about 60% with James.... what I was trying to say is that Connie shouldn't be blaming or "trying to share" the blame with other staff... Buck up and take responsibility (which I realize that she says she has, but in actuality.. she's still blaming the "other" crew(s) )..... Proving anyone noticed those wires showing prior to her is going to be difficult, a more appropriate route (in my eyes) is just to "bite the bullet" and go on. As James said.. "Lesson Learned". I would lay odds that she will NEVER make that mistake again.

And...most likely...she won't. I'll never forget "trusting" my partners to check the truck themselves on two different occasions when I was busy in the a.m. These were people that were, for the most part, competent, or so I thought. The first time something was missing,I caught it, and fixed it. No prob. The second time, I didn't, and got my ass super-reamed. NEVER again, will I ever trust anyone below me to make sure things are as they should be. If I don't see it with my own eyes...I trust nothing. I should have been able to trust them...however...fact remains...it was my charge, and therefore, my fault. No amount of finger pointing is going to help that. Unfortunately, it's not always fair and you just have to swallow it. It only took once for me....never again. In fact...several times recently I have re-checked behind people and found problems. If I had let my guard down....I would have been reamed again.

Good luck...hope things get better for you.

Remember.....trust no one. The best way to remedy this is to check everything YOURSELF. Even if someone else says they did...do it yourself. It only takes a few minutes, and then you have the peace of mind to KNOW that everything is ok. Plus, it makes it look even that much better on you when NOTHING like this happens on your shift. It only takes one responsible person....just go ahead and be that person. Sucks...but someone's gotta do it... :roll:

Luv, 8

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

It sounds to me like you actually disagree with James' post. What he said is that it is completely about the blame game. It's about management finding somebody to blame, and somebody accepting that blame.

He said nothing about fixing the problem. He said nothing about a program to assure it doesn't happen again. He said nothing about addressing the issue with others involved. His entire plan is to summarily blame somebody and move on as if the problem no longer exists. How in the world do you interpret that as not being a blame game?

It doesn't matter whether it is Connie or management doing the blaming. It is still very clearly a blame game.

Its not a paln to summarily blame or involve anyone.

This is a simple issue. Person A made a mistake by not reporting it. Person A therefore is up for discipline. Period.

If it was missed for days before, then writing a letter stating the firefighters statements is still appropriate, if done under the pretense of advising management of a potential problem at hand.

The original post was written in such a way to suggest that the action of not reporting the problem is acceptable because no one else did it. Thats not how this business works. You are responsible for yourself only. Period.

Which is why any discipline in warranted.

[Dustdevil]

That attitude will make you a great criminal judge, but a poor manager of human personnel.

The only consideration you seem to have is how to lay blame on somebody.

What exactly does your blame and "discipline" achieve for the good of this organization? Do you care about the good of your organization? Or do you see your job as a manager as only to dole out punishment to people when problems occur rather than to take responsibility for educating your people and remediating problems to prevent recurrence?

If you're really into making lots of extra pointless work for yourself, I suppose you could do both. But again, it would be counterproductive to the good of your organization.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

That attitude will make you a great criminal judge, but a poor manager of human personnel.

The only consideration you seem to have is how to lay blame on somebody.

What exactly does your blame and "discipline" achieve for the good of this organization? Do you care about the good of your organization? Or do you see your job as a manager as only to dole out punishment to people when problems occur rather than to take responsibility for educating your people and remediating problems to prevent recurrence?

If you're really into making lots of extra pointless work for yourself, I suppose you could do both. But again, it would be counterproductive to the good of your organization.

Again, your putting words in my mouth, assuming the actions I would take. Knock it off and stop over reading into it...

The original post makes no mention of personnel remediation or education, as means of prevention. Yes, steps do occur in the future regarding a tightening of the standards involved in checking apparatus, staff meetings outlining the importance, and so on.

My post, again, did not delve into this.

What I did say, is simply this. There is a definitive lack of personal accountability in this business, and my interpretation of the initial post, was not one of accountability, but a post written outlining the unhappiness of the poster with the decision to discipline her based on a mistake made.

I stand behind my prior statements.

James

[Connie31079]

James:

What about holding those medics accountable who knew there was a problem with the defib 4 days earlier, and did nothing about it?

I can't believe how many people in this thread just want to let them walk away scot free and let me take the fall! I am astonished.

So far, this is what I've learned from this thread.....if there's a problem, don't admit to it.......unless management can prove it. If they can prove it, watch out, you're gonna get nailed. If they can't prove it, well........I guess you get to walk away free as a bird without as much as a scolding. Is that the message here???

I'm not saying that I'm not guilty, I found the problem and I didn't report it until the end of my shift, but at least I reported it, unlike some of my colleagues.

The medics who were working that night in question are now acting very distant towards me, and barely speaking to me. Why is that, do you think? Maybe because they knew the problem existed, didn't write it up or report it to the supervisor, and now they're worried that THEY might actually get into trouble? Mmmmm.....I think we have a winner!!

If it wasn't for the firefighter telling me what he saw that night, I would have known nothing about the fact that the problem had occured days before.

People keep saying that I'm trying to "pass the buck".......that's the furthest thing from the truth. I'm accepting my guilt about not reporting it right away.......people say I just need to "bite the bullet", chalk it up to experience and move on.

It's pretty hard to do that, when I know that the problem could have been fixed days before my shift, and I'd never have known that there was even an issue.

Like I said before in an earlier post, you can be sure I'm going to check and re-check every piece of equipment over and over again, all day long. It took me 40 minutes to check the truck this morning, because I'm afraid I might miss something, and I'll get into even further trouble.

I should NOT be the only one disciplined over this!!!

================================================================================

Oh yeah, just as another little tidbit of information.......one of the medics who is barely speaking to me, he was working last night. When his wife got sick in the middle of the night last night and he had to leave work quickly in order to take her to the hospital, who did he call first and ask to fill his shift?

ME!!!

Because he knew I would.......that's the kind of person I am, help out anyone at any cost, regardless of how they've s**t on me!!

So I came in @ 2am in the morning to relieve him......he wasn't even here to say thank you.

[nsmedic393]

I'll tell you what I would honestly do if I had forgotten to report an incident with the defib. I would take my lumps and that would be it. I would not implicate anyone else, maybe because the people I work with are my firends and I don't feel the need to get anyone else in trouble just because I got caught with my hand in the cookie jar. I think me getting suspended would probably be a lesson to everyone in the office.

If I were in your co-workers position and had annother employee rat on me after getting caught themselves I wouldn't be friendly to you either. In fact I would probably be pretty bitter.

Everyone talks about sticking together as a profession, while how about sticking together before the fact and not handing our friends/co-workers to management.

[hfdff422]

The best way to advance in any profession is to fully accept whatever consequences are handed out. Go in and say "yes sir, I forgot to report that. I apologize and understand that this was a potentially catastrophic issue, and I will be more diligent in the future." Do not report other people after the fact, but rather when you receive a discplinary action, be sure that everyone is aware of why you received it to ensure you are the example. If you were not at all involved, then this advice would not be pertinent. If you are asked a question, don't even fudge the truth. If you were only partly responsible, then accept as much responsibility as you can, mabye even more than your share. This is advice that I have heeded and has taken me far. People will respect you for this and you will get the benefit of the doubt in the future.