Can EMT-B take ACLS or PALS?

[FireGuard69]

Can an EMT take the Advanced Provider Level of PHTLS? That is all that is offered in the Fla. region, and I am not going to medic before I fell that I have mastered, or at least know my BLS skills in my sleep

[LasVegasEMTI]

You must be at least a paramedic to take the PALS or ACLS class. It is a prerequesite.

Not true. I took ACLS (I'm an Intermediate) and I passed, with EXCELLENT understanding and a 94%. I've also taken PHTLS and passed with a 96%. PALS is coming up shortly and I do not forsee having any difficulty with the material. Yes, you have to be a Paramedic to practice certain things, but the knowledge gained in these courses is excellent, especially if you have the mind to understand the concepts. It only makes you a better partner to your Medic, because you can be thinking along their same lines and get equipment set up. I've even called out medic partners on things they have missed (ALS stuff) and changed their course of treatment because of it.

[LasVegasEMTI]

5. They don't teach you any skills. They don't teach you to read EKG's. They don't teach you to administer meds. They don't teach you to start IV's. They don't teach you to intubate. All they do is guide you through the process of knowing when to utilize those skills you should already have during cardiac emergencies.

8. The medics you work with aren't going to be impressed. They're going to think you're a wanker who isn't good enough at his BLS to start wasting time and money on ALS.

Although there is a good bit of advanced content, the EMT is not responsible for it. And, like ACLS, they aren't going to actually teach you any advanced skills, so don't expect an opportunity to learn invasive techniques.

5. Although I've already been trained in EKG reading, they did a TON of this in my ACLS class. We spent a good four hours just going over strips. And what the tx would be for each rhythm (electric/pharm/etc...)

8. Medics I've worked with have been very happy that I am able to supplement them with knowledge and skills. Sure I can't intubate here, but I can certainly identify when it needs to be done and I can set up the ET. Same goes for all monitoring, sure I "can't interpret" any strips, but I sure as hell know how to set up 12-leads, pacing and defib. I am happy I took ACLS, I am a better provider for it because my knowledge base exceeds my scope of practice. I'd rather it be in that direction than not know enough.

PHTLS- They taught me and let me practice lots of ALS skills. And even though I didn't have to, I still took the ALS part of the exam. Still passed the whole thing with a 96%.

[Ridryder 911]

ACLS is so watered down...(still awaiting new instruction material for the 2005 course) our janitor passed it .. and technically (dependent on the course coordinator) you can re-test until you pass, I even know of some that don't administer a test at all. So having the card really means nothing any more except you attended an AHA recommended guideline course on ACLS .. that's it & that's all.. it & and $1.50 usually will buy you a Coke. The only reason most Paramedics still take ACLS, is because the NREMT still requires it for re-registering. It is a shame that level & respect has disappeared. Now it is considered a joke.

Yes, it is geared at ACLS providers level, so not knowing or not being able to perform those skills discussed or described in sitting in a class, is really wasting money. If you spent that amount towards your advanced or even a PHTLS course to advance your knowledge on something you can utilize & use.

To take the PHTLS Advanced level you must be certified at the advanced level.. licensed or certified to intubate or establish IV's ... The reason is it has surgical airway and I/O etc.. in which is an advanced level.

There are many other CEU's courses that are at your current level that you gain insight & education on.

Good luck,

R/R 911

[ffpm41]

Look into ACLS fro EMT's, I think AAOS makes the book. Some of our EMT's went through the course to get a better understanding of what medics do in cardiovascular situations and loved it.

[toutdoors]

As a current EMT, who is in the paramedic class, I am not 100 percent sure on what I would recommend, or what should or should not be allowed. I do know this much though. When working as a basic, my paramedic partners have normally been very very supportive of answering questions, and helping me become better at my skills. Then when you start to ask the right question at the right time, they are normally more than happy to provide you with some incredibly in depth answers. My suggestion would be to talk to the people you work with, preferably the medics, and ask them what they think. I would have to say this, and Dust will probably hit me on this, but that is ok; an EMT can be an asset to their partner, if the medics will work with them and teach them a few things. I agree Dust, we need more ALS, but lets remember some EMTs are only temps, they are our future medics.

I do not see any thing wrong with teaching an EMT an advanced skill. We all know they can't use it, but I can tell you this; it really made me feel good to know that the medics respected me enough to teach me something. Sometimes they show you a skill, such as intubation, because you ask the question "Why are some intubations harder than others?" This can be a very good question, if asked in the proper manner. (ie. not to insinuate a medic is incompetent) This is when a lot of the times, a medic or two will get the dummies out, and the training bag, and show you how to intubate, then you get to see first hand, to a degree, just what is going on.

I do believe this though. If a system is going to run with basics and medics, everyone needs to train together, and the basics should be included in the aspects of ALS, so at the very least, they have somewhat of an idea as to what is likely to be happening. This could be considered an awareness step for the basic, and should never, in any way imply that a basic can intubate, or perform a needle decompression. But hey, if you let them play with the dummy someday during some down time, what has it hurt? If the medic taught the skill correctly, they had to think about it, and that means, it simply reinforced the training in the medic as well. This also will allow the basic to gain a small amount of insight into what they can expect in the medic class. Some of the best classes on anatomy/physiology have been in the rig coming back from a transfer with a medic who liked to teach his basic partner a few things.

So far as PHTLS for BLS and ALS, I would have to say that it was one of the BEST classes I have ever taken. I loved it. A lot of info that reinforced alot of what you already knew.

I have been through ACLS, it was good, but did not seem to have the intensity that PHTLS had. AMLS was also a good class. Can't speak on PALS, have to do that one yet.

[JPINFV]

If the ACLS for EMT-Basics is the book I'm thinking of, I thought it was a huge waste of time. The catch, though, was that I was already familiar with 99% of the information in the book from previous experiences.

[mstovall]

I am surprised that none mentioned AMLS. It would look like that would be a better course for a Basic then anything. I haven't gotten to go yet, but I plan on going. ITLS (formerly BTLS) is also a good course for basics and they have two levels in it as well. One guy in my class has taken both the PHTLS and ITLS and said that for the advanced level, ITLS was harder to achieve. I guess it would truly depend on the instructor. AMLS schedules can be seen on the NAEMT website also.

Michael