Trauma Docs with lights and sirens?? What do you think?

[Ridryder 911]

That's right....we are the only reason. We there 24/7/365....we do provide quality care, and yes, I am proud of myself -- maybe vollies in your area are "bad" providers, but around here we take great pride in what we do, and furthermore, we provide care at or above that provided by paid EMS services, and we work closely with our local police department ambulances.

Again, another going with the trend... one thing about them vollies they are proud of themselves!....

Part of being professional is not to brag on one self, it is a job.. short & simple no heroics no banners, no citations, no medals .. no lights, or sirens, whistles etc... You take care of sick & injured people until they get to the hospital. Go to school and get the education, do it right with a caring attitude.. that's it ! .....short & simple.

R/R 911

[RiderRob89]

You're dodging the point. Nobody said anything about you being a bad provider. The point is simple if you read it. The reason your community doesn't have full-time professional medical personnel standing by in an ambulance 24/7 to respond to emergencies is because people like you will provide half that service for free. It is the reason people in your community die. And it is the reason that there are no actual EMS jobs for you or any other EMT or medic in your community. So yes, you are screwing your community. However, yes, I will agree with 422 that it is mostly out of ignorance. And a lot of selfishness. Certainly not out of any altruistic sense of civic pride. Otherwise, all your community's trash would be collected by volunteers too.

I don't really know why you dislike VAC's so much, nor do I care. You obviously do not understand the way the EMS system operates in suburban Nassau County, NY. Your "perfect" paid service, in this area has a response time of 15 minutes or more to the scene. The VAC I am with has a response time of less than 5 -- and we get out on over 90% of calls -- any that we don't are picked up by a neighboring department and responded to within 10 minutes. So if a paid service takes at least 15 minutes to respond, and a VAC takes less than 5, who is really "letting people in our community die?" The paid service.

Furthermore, Dust, I notice you went to school in Syracuse at one point. Had you ever needed help up there, you most likely would have been saved by a VAC -- do you know why? Because the nearest paid service in Syracuse is overloaded and understaffed, and has a response time of over 20 minutes.

Stay safe.

[RiderRob89]

("Ridryder 911Again @ another going with the trend... one thing about them vollies they are proud of themselves!....

Part of being professional is not to brag on one self, it is a job.. short & simple no heroics no banners, no citations, no medals .. no lights, or sirens, whistles etc... You take care of sick & injured people until they get to the hospital. Go to school and get the education, [

do it right with a caring attitude.. that's it ! .....short & simple.

R/R 911

What's so wrong with taking pride in what you do? I would hope that you are certainly not ashamed of your job, Ridryder. Yes, that is it -- do it and do it right -- and thats what we do.

[Ace844]

What's so wrong with taking pride in what you do? I would hope that you are certainly not ashamed of your job, Ridryder. Yes, that is it -- do it and do it right -- and thats what we do.

This has what to do with the topic at hand????!!!

[RiderRob89]

ask Ridryder lol -- i have no idea

[Ridryder 911]

From most of the post all I have read from volunteers it is always stated .. "me, I , we " Never the system, or even the patient. No I am not ashamed of my profession, my collegiate degrees, or as you say "my job" . I don't do this to make me feel better, you see, it is not about me , rather it is for my clients or patients.

I dedicated my self to a profession to make it better. This means to improve the education, system, and care for the patient. Not about myself.

Not all volunteers represent that image, unfortunately a few is all it takes to see wearing T-shirts, patches, with lights all-over their vehicles to give a piss poor image. And yes those who do that .... Guess what? You do !!

Sorry, yes I would worry if I seen Vol Squad on the side of the unit because of those previous images. I would want to know there was control in that system, and true medical education. enough dedication that person actually dedicated themselves to a profession as a career, not something to fill the time or feel good for humanity.

Tell me why EMS has to have volunteers and ER's don't have volunteer DOc's or RN's ? .... I can tell you.

R/R 911

[MedicNorth]

Damn!

Here we go again!

Hey - Lets bash each other over the head just a few more times to make our points, which, naturally, makes us all feel better.

This thread was originally about whether or not doctors should be allowed to run hot to the ER with lights and sirens. Like so many other threads before it, it has degenerated into the "Volunteer vs Pro" debate, and I find that disturbing. I make part of my living in EMS, and I also volunteer as a firefighter, so I can see both sides of the story.

Okay, here is my two bits worth.

1. Yes, there are doctors who volunteer their time - they work in inner city clinics, in third world nations, and other places where the people simply cannot afford to pay for the services you and I take for granted. Does this mean that the service they offer is substandard? Perhaps it is, because the supplies and facilities are not there, but it beats the hell out of nothing at all! Are they taking away jobs from other doctors, or even themselves? Probably, but more to the point they are saving lives that would not have been saved if they had not been there.

2. Yes again, there are volunteers who are "wankers", who do the job just for the glory or hero syndrome, and they do make the profession look bad. I am also aware of some professional EMS people who are in the game for precisely the same reason, and who have the same result on the public image of EMT's and Paramedics.

3. Yes,there are municipalities that are too cheap, too uninformed, or too clever to pay for a professional service when there are volunteers who will do the job for peanuts. These areas would be able to pay professionals to do the job if vols wouldn't. A slight tax increase would cover the additional expenses. Paying people who were willing to do the job would give the volunteers some incentive to take the training required to make it a career.

4. No, you could not eliminate ALL volunteer squads and have the same or better level of service in all areas. Some are too remote or too underpopulated - the costs could not be handled by the minor tax increase or cuts somewhere else - would you be willing to have your taxes go up to subsidize? A classic example, would be the fire service I volunteer for. If the vols quit, the nearest town that would be able to afford full time fire service is 35 minutes away.

5. Bearing arms -WTF? What has that got to do with anything?

All right - I'm finished for now. If there is anybody out there I haven't upset yet, let me know, and I'll work on it!

[Ridryder 911]

Like many has stated usually Doc's have bigger egos than to put redlights on that Porsch'e ... I am sure ther would be some bigger toys...

Sorry for the rant.. bad day.. yes there are defintely some great vollies..just more wanna-be's than there should be..

R/R 911

[hammerpcp]

Damn!

Here we go again!

Hey - Lets bash each other over the head just a few more times to make our points, which, naturally, makes us all feel better.

This thread was originally about whether or not doctors should be allowed to run hot to the ER with lights and sirens. Like so many other threads before it, it has degenerated into the "Volunteer vs Pro" debate, and I find that disturbing. I make part of my living in EMS, and I also volunteer as a firefighter, so I can see both sides of the story.

Okay, here is my two bits worth.

1. Yes, there are doctors who volunteer their time - they work in inner city clinics, in third world nations, and other places where the people simply cannot afford to pay for the services you and I take for granted. Does this mean that the service they offer is substandard? Perhaps it is, because the supplies and facilities are not there, but it beats the hell out of nothing at all! Are they taking away jobs from other doctors, or even themselves? Probably, but more to the point they are saving lives that would not have been saved if they had not been there.

2. Yes again, there are volunteers who are "wankers", who do the job just for the glory or hero syndrome, and they do make the profession look bad. I am also aware of some professional EMS people who are in the game for precisely the same reason, and who have the same result on the public image of EMT's and Paramedics.

3. Yes,there are municipalities that are too cheap, too uninformed, or too clever to pay for a professional service when there are volunteers who will do the job for peanuts. These areas would be able to pay professionals to do the job if vols wouldn't. A slight tax increase would cover the additional expenses. Paying people who were willing to do the job would give the volunteers some incentive to take the training required to make it a career.

4. No, you could not eliminate ALL volunteer squads and have the same or better level of service in all areas. Some are too remote or too underpopulated - the costs could not be handled by the minor tax increase or cuts somewhere else - would you be willing to have your taxes go up to subsidize? A classic example, would be the fire service I volunteer for. If the vols quit, the nearest town that would be able to afford full time fire service is 35 minutes away.

5. Bearing arms -WTF? What has that got to do with anything?

All right - I'm finished for now. If there is anybody out there I haven't upset yet, let me know, and I'll work on it!

ME! I still like you. :wink: LOL

[n5iln]

Before I start, there will be a brief pause to pull on my turnouts. I expect I'm going to need them once I finish saying what I'm going to say.

You're dodging the point. Nobody said anything about you being a bad provider. The point is simple if you read it. The reason your community doesn't have full-time professional medical personnel standing by in an ambulance 24/7 to respond to emergencies is because people like you will provide half that service for free. It is the reason people in your community die. And it is the reason that there are no actual EMS jobs for you or any other EMT or medic in your community. So yes, you are screwing your community.

However, yes, I will agree with 422 that it is mostly out of ignorance. And a lot of selfishness. Certainly not out of any altruistic sense of civic pride. Otherwise, all your community's trash would be collected by volunteers too.

First...I feel like you're making a lot of these claims solely as flamebait. You say people die in our communities because we have volunteer EMS instead of paid. Documentation, please. Complete with citations. Prove what you claim.

Second...I have yet to hear anyone, here or elsewhere, offer up any sort of realistic, viable means of funding paid EMS in areas that are currently served by volunteer corps, other than what I suggested (complete nationalization of the health care system). There's only so many tax dollars to go around. What will get cut to fund EMS? Fire? Most of those are volunteer around here too, for exactly the same reason: no tax base to hire a paid staff. Trash collection? Done by private companies. Highway maintenance? Already well beyond the breaking point.

The almighty dollar dictates a great deal in these United States. In this case, it dictates who can and can't have paid emergency services. Simple, painful, stubborn, irreducible fact: economics always wins out over just about any other consideration.

I'd be so happy to have someone prove me wrong, logically and factually.

'Nuff said...for now.