Acadian

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

[marq=right:034309dadb]ACADIAN IS THE DEVIL :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: !!![/marq:034309dadb]

That is all

[AASIAirMed]

To the person who posted, "Acadian is the devil", can you not think of a more mature argument to convey your dislike for my company. Yet, then again you may not work for such a well organized, progressive, cutting-edge company. By the way, look at your retirement compared to our 401-K ANNNNNNNND E.S.O.P. Need I say more? I'm sure you will ahve some cute response to this post. I welcome it with open arms.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

To the person who posted, "Acadian is the devil", can you not think of a more mature argument to convey your dislike for my company. Yet, then again you may not work for such a well organized, progressive, cutting-edge company. By the way, look at your retirement compared to our 401-K ANNNNNNNND E.S.O.P. Need I say more? I'm sure you will ahve some cute response to this post. I welcome it with open arms.

Awww, someone feeling protective of the devil? No problem, happy to defend my stance.

Acadian and AMR are large scale corporate entities of note in American EMS. Acadian being of course the smaller of the two models.

These particular large scale models have, for the most part, operated with similar corporate models as companies like microsoft, and wal mart. The ideal is to suck of everything around them, in the interest of profit. Think im wrong? Tell me how many non EMS ventures your "company" has their hand in? Lets see how in depth your knowledge goes...

Stepping beyond that.

Heres the issue with this. EMS as a whole should be a municipally based system. There is no more stable organization than a county run EMS system. Lets compare your 401k to theirs...or any other benefit you may have. Progressive nature? Municipality based EMS services will always be more cutting edge when performance and customer satasfaction reflects on how happy your voting contingent is.

But most of all...

Acadian could tomorrow walk in and cut your rate in half, pull your benefits, and cut your staff in half, in the interest of profit increases. Welcome to Corporate EMS. If youi dont like it, put on a cup.

Municipal EMS? There are considerably more laws and protections, especially for those within the civil service blanket.

So in reality, my prior statement was less against Acadian, and more against corporate giants who lure ignorant, unsuspecting people into their guise with decent benefits and progressive services, yet offer them no guarantee their employment and benefits wont be taken away, because the owner needs a new Mercedes.

Welcome to the corporate world. I have more than enough experience in EMS, the corporate world, and corporate EMS to recognize that patient care should be the goal, not the almighty dollar. Until you get out a bit, youll never "get" it.

I also welcome your responses.

XoXo

PRPG

[GulDukat]

I can only assume that you also feel that the Hospital you transport your patients to should also be municipally owned as well.

Surely you also believe that the rehab units & clinics & for that matter all of medicine should be socialized as well.

You do demand that the Ambulance you respond in be produced by the government as well, right? How about the monitor you use or the drugs you push?

You can't just say that one part of an entity must be socialized & then let everything else in the system be private because the arguments that you are using to promote your socialized medicine can be applied to every aspect of your job even if you do work for a socialized system.

[Scaramedic]

Tell me how many non EMS ventures your "company" has their hand in? Lets see how in depth your knowledge goes...

AMR has a race car...

...

...which is the ultimate example of what is wrong with some cooperation's. The management of AMR has decided they need to spend millions on a snazzy race car. For what? To advertise AMR to the general public? The general public could care less about AMR they just want an ambulance to show up when they call 911. The race car is part ego and part "look how cool we are, now let us run EMS in your city."

Meanwhile they are laying off employees in a continual effort to downsize and become more profitable. In Multnomah County (Portland, OR) they came in and bought out two of the three big players in the ambulance biz. They then went to the county and convinced them that a county wide EMS provider was needed, thereby forcing the third company out of business. This is a typical model for cooperate America, kill any competition.

One last thing AMR is owned by Laidlaw, yeah the bus people, which also owns EmCare. EmCare is a nationwide ER Physicians group with over 4,500 MD's working in ER's, and sitting on EMS councils. Can anyone say conflict of interest?

I am not anti-cooperation I just feel that there needs to be a balance when it comes to the publics interest. In response to issue of socialization, are you advocating that Fire Department become a private entity? Explain to me why Fire Safety should be a City/County function but not EMS.

Peace,

Marty

:joker:

[GulDukat]

AMR has a race car...

...

...which is the ultimate example of what is wrong with some cooperation's. The management of AMR has decided they need to spend millions on a snazzy race car. For what? To advertise AMR to the general public? The general public could care less about AMR they just want an ambulance to show up when they call 911. The race car is part ego and part "look how cool we are, now let us run EMS in your city."

Meanwhile they are laying off employees in a continual effort to downsize and become more profitable. In Multnomah County (Portland, OR) they came in and bought out two of the three big players in the ambulance biz. They then went to the county and convinced them that a county wide EMS provider was needed, thereby forcing the third company out of business. This is a typical model for cooperate America, kill any competition.

One last thing AMR is owned by Laidlaw, yeah the bus people, which also owns EmCare. EmCare is a nationwide ER Physicians group with over 4,500 MD's working in ER's, and sitting on EMS councils. Can anyone say conflict of interest?

I am not anti-cooperation I just feel that there needs to be a balance when it comes to the publics interest. In response to issue of socialization, are you advocating that Fire Department become a private entity? Explain to me why Fire Safety should be a City/County function but not EMS.Marty

:joker:

I will once you explain to me why Emergency MEDICAL Services should be a City/County function yet no other aspect of health care should be.

BTW, there are several private fire departments out there.

[Scaramedic]

I will once you explain to me why Emergency MEDICAL Services should be a City/County function yet no other aspect of health care should be.

BTW, there are several private fire departments out there.

Where to start?

#1. Using Multnomah County as an example here is a list of departments within the Multnomah County Health Department..

[align=center:5f00c4f9f3] • Health Services/Clinics

• Dental Services

• School Based Health Centers

• Coalition of Community Clinics

• Community Immunizations

• Early Childhood Services

• Healthy Birth Initiative

• Healthy Start

• STARS

• WIC

• Food Handlers Program

• Lead Poisoning Prevention

• Disease Control and Occupational Health

• Emergency Preparedness

• Travelers' Clinic

• STD Program

• Tuberculosis Program

• Medicaid Eligibility

• Community Health Council

• HIV Planning Council

• Business Services[/align:5f00c4f9f3]

Seems to me that the county is already heavily involved in Medicine in Portland, and this is the norm for most cities in the nation.

#2. The largest hospital in the city of Portland is Oregon Health Sciences University. A hospital largely funded by the state, which years ago took over Multnomah County General Hospital which was a county run hospital. In fact most hospitals in Portland receive local, state and even federal money to run their hospitals. A good example is the "Trauma System" in Oregon in which the hospitals receive reimbursements for the patients brought in as level 1 traumas. Once again, pretty standard across the country.

#3. I said there must be a balance between private cooperation's and public safety. The profit/loss interests of a cooperation should not dictate patient care. Oversight by a county/city or state agency is one way to keep cooperation's like AMR & Acadia from skimping on patient care in the name of profit.

#4. AMR has learned that oversight can tie their hands and has responded by aligning themselves with EmCare. Now they have 4,500 ER Docs on their team, who can help AMR control even more of the EMS pie. Like I said before I see this as a huge conflict of interest, I wonder how many governing bodies know that some of the MD's who sit on their EMS committees work for the same company as AMR? I would guess not many.

#5. I used to work for one of the companies bought out by AMR in 1994. I was there when AMR took over as sole provider for Portland metro area, and yes I have worked for AMR. I probably will be working for them again soon, believe it or not I like AMR. I just know that they will try to do what they can in the name of profit, and that's what concerns me about private systems.

#6. As far as "private fire departments" they get paid by the city or county they are covering. Do you really think a fire department could survive by getting piece work for the fires they work? "I'm sorry we were unable to save your house, here's a bill for $9,000, your insurance should cover it." Yeah right!

Peace,

Marty

:joker:

[madmedic8522]

I'm not sure what the argument is about, nobody could honestly believe that the "corporate big-wigs" don't look at the bottom dollar. I've worked in the private sector before, where i come from you almost have to start there. i worked (at the time) for the largest "for-profit ambulance service in MO, it's been some time now, and that statement may be out dated. i remember times that payday would come and go with only a "we can't cut checks until the customers pay....sorry".

"by the way if you don't like it, you can quit.....EMTs and Medics are a dime a dozen", then the trucks we had to deal with.........ever seen the Flintstones?

we had a choice at shift change, AC/steering/ or brakes. we stayed about 5 years behind the rest of the field with technology as well. we were still using LP5s when the 12s were hitting the market, and still no SAO2.......to this day i can still tell that a pt is SOB, just by looking at them *madmedic says sarcastically*.

yes big companies run the hospitals, and make the equipment that we use everyday, but if I'm being asked about private sector EMS, I'll tell you that it sucks, everyday/ all day!!! I'll take my station over sitting in a "safe" parking lot anytime, thank you very much! forget the employment "bennies", it just nice to be able to change something that doesn't work, because i have a "say so" or a "voice", equipment that is up to date...and works, and a true safe place to go between calls, oh and lets not forget the fact that i only work 10 days a month......I'm a happy camper!!!

madmedic

[GulDukat]

Where to start?

#1. Using Multnomah County as an example here is a list of departments within the Multnomah County Health Department..

[align=center:b3b5cdfd50] • Health Services/Clinics

• Dental Services

• School Based Health Centers

• Coalition of Community Clinics

• Community Immunizations

• Early Childhood Services

• Healthy Birth Initiative

• Healthy Start

• STARS

• WIC

• Food Handlers Program

• Lead Poisoning Prevention

• Disease Control and Occupational Health

• Emergency Preparedness

• Travelers' Clinic

• STD Program

• Tuberculosis Program

• Medicaid Eligibility

• Community Health Council

• HIV Planning Council

• Business Services[/align:b3b5cdfd50]

Seems to me that the county is already heavily involved in Medicine in Portland, and this is the norm for most cities in the nation.

#2. The largest hospital in the city of Portland is Oregon Health Sciences University. A hospital largely funded by the state, which years ago took over Multnomah County General Hospital which was a county run hospital. In fact most hospitals in Portland receive local, state and even federal money to run their hospitals. A good example is the "Trauma System" in Oregon in which the hospitals receive reimbursements for the patients brought in as level 1 traumas. Once again, pretty standard across the country.

#3. I said there must be a balance between private cooperation's and public safety. The profit/loss interests of a cooperation should not dictate patient care. Oversight by a county/city or state agency is one way to keep cooperation's like AMR & Acadia from skimping on patient care in the name of profit.

#4. AMR has learned that oversight can tie their hands and has responded by aligning themselves with EmCare. Now they have 4,500 ER Docs on their team, who can help AMR control even more of the EMS pie. Like I said before I see this as a huge conflict of interest, I wonder how many governing bodies know that some of the MD's who sit on their EMS committees work for the same company as AMR? I would guess not many.

#5. I used to work for one of the companies bought out by AMR in 1994. I was there when AMR took over as sole provider for Portland metro area, and yes I have worked for AMR. I probably will be working for them again soon, believe it or not I like AMR. I just know that they will try to do what they can in the name of profit, and that's what concerns me about private systems.

#6. As far as "private fire departments" they get paid by the city or county they are covering. Do you really think a fire department could survive by getting piece work for the fires they work? "I'm sorry we were unable to save your house, here's a bill for $9,000, your insurance should cover it." Yeah right!

Peace,

Marty

:joker:

I guess before I go point by point over each issue with you I should explain one thing.

I am NOT opposed to government run EMS. In many cases it is the only type of EMS that has a chance of succeeding.

I've said it before on here & I'll say it again. Any agency, company or entity can succesfully run an EMS program for a community as long as they have their priorities in order & that starts with the words "patient care comes first". Profit & patient care are not mutually exclusive to one another btw.

I've seen some of the best EMS performed by a paid Fire Department Ambulance service & I have seen some of the worst EMS performed by a paid Fire Department.

I've seen good volunteer agencies & bad ones. Good county run services & bad ones. I could go on but you get my drift by now.

But to make sure I am fair about this I will say this some of the most God awful conditions I've ever worked in or seen were done by a cut throat fly by night private Ambulance service. However some of the highest standards of patient care have also come from a well established private Ambulance service as well.

Again I am not opposed to government run EMS however I am adamantly opposed to exclusive rights to EMS being done by anyone. Private, public or other.

In other words I think it is wrong for the government to limit your choice to health care because somebody has an exclusive right to an area.

[Nate]

Usually a county is more accountable for it's EMS then a private company. Also, the management team of a county/city EMS also usually lives in the area, so they have a level of respect they would like to keep. Yes, we do hear of county/city services going under from the strain of a lack of funding and other reasons. However, we have seen just how horrible corporate EMS can be to a city/county when they pull out.

For instance, Gold Star left Galveston County and many others in Texas with out EMS in a matter of hours when they were busted by the FBI. It took over a year (and it isn't done) before "normal" was used in the same sentence as EMS down in Galveston County.