Learning vs. Certification

[emtbyker]

Hey All,

I teach ACLS and I've run into something that I hear is pretty normal. During a recert class I challenged my students to think during the megacode skill station.

Some of the nurses were upset that I made them think and didn't just tell them what to do and give them their certs.

When I talked to a medic friend of mine she said "Of course, it's just recert, no one wants to think, they just want their cert."

What the hell? Am I supposed to turn out students that don't know their stuff?

--- Nancy

[Ridryder 911]

First of all, remember AHA ACLS is NO longer a Certification class. If you deviate from that or insinuate other, you might be misleading. Unfortunately, AHA has watered down ACLS it is a joke.. some areas don't even test, since it is now a education class only. Heck, our x-ray tech's have passed the course without any cardiac training. I recommend the ACLS for experienced providers course, it is a lot like the old ACLS with mega codes, central line placement & acid base balance, etc...

This is a dilemma in the EMS & ER/Critical Care settings. I wished AHA would regain the respectability they once had & restructure these courses. Now every organization has their specialties ( ENA- ENPC-Ped course in lieu of PALS, EMS - PEEP, etc..) more $ for them.. & more classes to attend.

Be careful,

Ridryder 911

[tunnelrat83]

I am not an ALS provider yet... and have not taken ACLS but that is BullS**T that they would want you to do that... if i am taking arecert class... i want to be damn sure that i know what is going on... and that i know what i am doing.. the nerve of some people out there is just astonishing....

i would be tempted to not give them the recert based off of that (and I am losely saying that for any certification type thing)

[Charles6771]

I have been an instructor in many ACLS classes. I also teach at the local college with the paramedic class. If someone doesn't pass the megacode or does something that would be dangerous they will fail my station. For instance 7 resident dr.'s from a local hosp came to certify ACLS, well 4 of the 7 had to come back after they were told they weren't ready. And these are folks with MD after there name. If you don't feel they met the minimal requirements they don't need to pass. Charles

[emtmoira]

While people do need to learn I think that it can be more general when recertifying. Although I'm not ACLS or anything I just think that it's necessary to review in depth but not necessarily relearn everything. Of course I'm not speaking from experience it's just how I feel about recerting various certs.

[1EMT-P]

I my opinion the Instructors role is to provide the students with the current/updated information and the students role is to read the material, perform the skills to the best of their abilities and take the test.

[Ridryder 911]

True 1EMT-P,

We are there not to FAIL students, but to motivate them to learn. No one can teach, if they are not willing to learn. This is why AHA, has totally changed their programs ! Intimidation & scrutiny was deferring prospective students. Although we have totally relaxed the medical standards, I agree with the layed back, non-stressful way of teaching.

Be safe,

Ridryder 911

[1EMT-P]

I think that they need to make some changes to the ACLS curriculum. There really isn't any motivation for experienced providers to sit through class.

I have a friend who is an RN and she told me that most of the nurses that she works with in the recovery room and surgery do not take ACLS. They attend an in-service and read the material, but do not take ACLS.

[Charles6771]

You are right 1EMTP, people who have taken it more than 3 or 4 times really don't care and just show up to get there hours and recert. But they are the ones who really need it. The newer medics get it pounded into there heads(at least the ones I teach do) and they can blow a ten year veteran out of the water. But you are right they need a course for experienced providers. CHARLES

[THE_DITCH_DOCTOR]

"The ACLS course from hell"- basically take the regular ACLS course and the standard megacode stations, but then you have to come back for a second day for 10 or more rotating scenarios (the exact number depends on how sadistic the course director feels at the time), basically go through multiple different scenarios (and they are different everytime you do it). That way you make sure you have your stuff down to perfection.