NASAL NALOXONE

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

And because of these side effects I can't get behind BLS providing this intervention. Some of the complications that can arise out of this can lead to larger problems for the patient and the provider. It is not always a benign intervention. If it's going to be given it should be given by ALS with the appropriate tools to manage this patient once they start down the crapper.

From a BLS standpoint, support ventilations/respirations with a BVM if needed and transport to the ED.

But if you're going to give it, nasal is a great way to go.

just MHO.

-be safe.

Amen Mike, which is why I asked the question. Sometimes, EMT's have general issues with believing that if they can be trained to perform the skills, they can do them. I for one, used to be of this mindset (admittedly).

Vs's post illustrated a great principal every EMT should remember. Administration of any medication may bring you the results your looking for. But you likely wont be able to handle the complications if it doesnt.

If you want to do more, get more educated. Til then, be the best damn provider you can be at the level your at. Instead of worrying about what new cool thing WE can do, lets actually become competent at the procedures we already have.

maybe then we can progress.

[Dustdevil]

1. If your specifying 'prescribed drugs past layperson education, you are correct. Your prior terminology left enough to the imagination that i had to hit you with it.

2. The 2nd response is semantics. EMT's perform BLS. They dont perform ALS. The terms can be used interchangably when in the context of a thread discussing EMT's.

I don't believe they can, and that is my point. That's like saying that if a nurse performs surgery, it's not really surgery. The certification level of a provider does not affect the classification of an intervention. If a procedure requires a certification -- be it EMT or Paramedic or whatever -- it is an advanced procedure. Advanced = ALS.

Call it an EMT skill or an EMT drug if you like. That is fully appropriate. I have no argument with that. But it is very definitely NOT a BLS skill or drug. In fact, "BLS drug" is an oxymoron.

To synonymously equate EMT's with only BLS skills is a categorisation that is an insult to EMT's. And it completely ignores the emerging reality that EMT's are more commonly being called upon as ALS providers. And, most dangerously, it cheapens the ALS functions being performed by those EMT's to a point that they will start to take it for granted as "no big deal" because it is "just BLS." And we all know where that leads.

Is it just semantics? Probably so. But, in this case, it is semantics that make a real difference in our perception. And, that erroneous perception can have a very negative effect on our practise. Let's try to respect the medical responsibilities we are being entrusted with instead of taking them for granted as nothing more than standard first aid.

[EMT City Administrator]

This tread is not about "is administering a drug by an EMT an ALS skill?".. if you want to talk about that, start another thread.

Keep on topic........

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I don't believe they can, and that is my point. That's like saying that if a nurse performs surgery, it's not really surgery. The certification level of a provider does not affect the classification of an intervention. If a procedure requires a certification -- be it EMT or Paramedic or whatever -- it is an advanced procedure. Advanced = ALS.

Call it an EMT skill or an EMT drug if you like. That is fully appropriate. I have no argument with that. But it is very definitely NOT a BLS skill or drug. In fact, "BLS drug" is an oxymoron.

To synonymously equate EMT's with only BLS skills is a categorisation that is an insult to EMT's. And it completely ignores the emerging reality that EMT's are more commonly being called upon as ALS providers. And, most dangerously, it cheapens the ALS functions being performed by those EMT's to a point that they will start to take it for granted as "no big deal" because it is "just BLS." And we all know where that leads.

Is it just semantics? Probably so. But, in this case, it is semantics that make a real difference in our perception. And, that erroneous perception can have a very negative effect on our practise. Let's try to respect the medical responsibilities we are being entrusted with instead of taking them for granted as nothing more than standard first aid.

Now I see where your coming from. Ok to that.

To the admin, threads change and evolve. This, and several others have. Lets try to accomidate for that.

PRPG.

[AKmedik8or]

If the topic is still IN narcan it is a excellent route, given the nature of the social habits of patients requiring narcan it provides a route with reduced risk subjecting patient bystanders and crew to potential body fluids through exposure.

Side note you are introducing fluid to an airway however small the amount have a heighten awareness for the reactive airway.

[kevkei]

Seizures, acute withdrawal, combativeness...The half life of narcan is generally significantly shorter than the narcotic so a constant infussion titrated to effect (respiratory depression) and/or a monitored patient is required.

Agreed. These things are bad m'kay.

[1EMT-P]

In the future we may see more providers administering & assisting with IN Narcan in the field.

FYI: An EMT-Basic by definition is an EMT who has training in [b]basic life support, including automated external defibrillation, use of definitive airway adjunct, and assisting with certain medications. AAOS Ninth Edition.

[kevkei]

In the future we may see more providers administering & assisting with IN Narcan in the field.

Actually, there is a program in our inner City called Street Works that is training laypersons from the community to recognize and administer IM narcan. Basically, they are a known narcotic user and found unresponsive.

[Mikeyg]

[firemedic78]

Dust wrote:

PRPGfirerescuetech wrote:

Incorrect. SOME pharmocology is BLS. SOME pharmocology is ALS.

Incorrect. If a lay person can't do it, it is ALS. All pre-hospital pharmacology involving prescribed drugs is ADVANCED Life Support.

So you're saying that pre-hospital delivery of Oxygen is an ALS drug? Because last I checked, you need a MD Rx to purchase oxygen for medical use, therefore it becomes a prescribed drug. And pharmacology deals with drugs...so... :roll: ...Oxygen should not be used by EMT Basics??? Because it is now an ALS drug, or so you're implying by your comment.

Now back to the topic...

I recently did a research article on IN Narcan administration and the resource i found stated that 83% of patients that rec'd the IN route came about with one dose, and did not require an IV. The article was actually about reducing needle sticks to 'Paramedics' because there are too many accidental sticks. :angel9: i'm going to keep this thread clean of bashing medics for sticking themselves- since some here rant and rave about being so much more educated then Basics and Intermediates...(guess they need to add more hours into the course- 'how not to stick yourself accidentally') To all you medics who haven't stuck yourself on the box...good job, keep safe! 8)