NASAL NALOXONE

[EMT City Administrator]

This is the correct area...

This is a skill a BLS person is able to do therefore it is appropriate for the BLS forum.

Admin

[Dustdevil]

I wanted to see what people (both BLS and ALS) think about this, and to see if it is something that has gained acceptance in area's other than my own.

I hope losers with 120 hours of first aid training administering drugs to people never gains acceptance in my area. :?

And regardless of what semantic label you choose to place on the procedure or the provider, pharmacology is still ADVANCED Life Support.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I hope losers with 120 hours of first aid training administering drugs to people never gains acceptance in my area. :?

And regardless of what semantic label you choose to place on the procedure or the provider, pharmacology is still ADVANCED Life Support.

Incorrect. SOME pharmocology is BLS. SOME pharmocology is ALS.

PArdon my own incompetence, but I ask, what complications are possible with narcan administrations?

I hold no opinions til someone answers this. I'd get it myself but im a few charts in the hole. Back in a bit.

PRPG

[1EMT-P]

Dust just because someone is an EMT doesn't make him or her a loser :!: I know EMT's with college degrees in Athletic Training/Sports Medicine, Health Sciences and Nursing.

[EMS-Cat]

Dust just because someone is an EMT doesn't make him or her a loser :!: I know EMT's with college degrees in Athletic Training/Sports Medicine, Health Sciences and Nursing.

Welcome to the prevailing attitude here: "If you ain't a paramedic, you ain't nothin'." [Notice I said 'paramedic' because, so far as a lot of the world is concerned, if you provide front line - first responder care, you are a medic. ]

And wait, it gets even better. The EMT-Ps start lashing at each other because one person's number of classroom hours - clinical hours - the way they hold their mouths when they tube -isn't the same as someone elses so it's not as good as their program, credential, what-have-you.

I happen to be an EMT-B right now. Pretty much any time I've answered a question or made a statement as an EMT-B, I've been told I shouldn't be doing it, I don't have enough training, I'm putting the patient at risk by just breathing the same air. Doesn't make a squat of difference if I've got a Med Director who's approved my protocols, whose name and license I am practicing under, I just 'shouldn't be doing that'.

It gets more than a bit after a while.

And the fun thing is, no one [well, next to no one] ever asks if you have more training than the initials you currently list. They see you only as an EMT-B and that's it. Even if you do managed to establish a bit of 'street cred', the next poor slob who happens to mess up [and there will always be the bottom of the pile in both professions: EMT-B and EMT-P] will being everyone back down to the lowest common denominator in their eyes again.

So now I pretty much just lurk here, read a couple of post and answer next to none because a person can only be professionally slammed and insulted so many times before they simply leave the fray, remembering that this forum is really a pretty small pond in the vast world of EMS care and, in the end, isn't worth the aggravation at the end of the day.

You will not change the minds of anyone here about the usefulness of the EMT-B as a BLS provider. You will not change anyone's mind about the efficacy of EMT-B's having a pharmacology they can provide as a first responder before ALS shows up. You simply won't change anyone who is totally set in their 'My way is the one and only true and right way to do things' head set. You will get knocked about, slammed and professionally ground into the dirt.

And that's sad, because I thought we were all here to share information and to help save lives.

EMS-Cat

LPN/RN, RRT/CRTT, OST, EMT-B [WA], NREMT-B

US Army [ret] E-8/MSG, 91C50Z

[EMT City Administrator]

Lets get back on topic please....

Admin

[vs-eh?]

PArdon my own incompetence, but I ask, what complications are possible with narcan administrations?

Seizures, acute withdrawal, combativeness...The half life of narcan is generally significantly shorter than the narcotic so a constant infussion titrated to effect (respiratory depression) and/or a monitored patient is required.

As with nsmedic393, naloxone admin is not very popular here either. You actually have to patch to give it here, owing to its rarity. Most ACP's simply maintain the airway/ventilate/intubate prn.

The only time it will likely be given is in an accidental OD with a pediatric patient or iatrogenic narcotic admin during a "can't intubate" scenerio following PAI.

Narcotic OD (especially with an addict) is better managed in the hospital in my opinion. The patient is already "knocked down", you give them the antagonist, then they pop up swinging and combative and you have to knock them down again with a benzo? Doesn't make sense to me...

EDIT - That was post 666....OOOOOH....Weirdo...

[paramedicmike]

And because of these side effects I can't get behind BLS providing this intervention. Some of the complications that can arise out of this can lead to larger problems for the patient and the provider. It is not always a benign intervention. If it's going to be given it should be given by ALS with the appropriate tools to manage this patient once they start down the crapper.

From a BLS standpoint, support ventilations/respirations with a BVM if needed and transport to the ED.

But if you're going to give it, nasal is a great way to go.

just MHO.

-be safe.

[Dustdevil]

Incorrect. SOME pharmocology is BLS. SOME pharmocology is ALS.

Incorrect. If a lay person can't do it, it is ALS. All pre-hospital pharmacology involving prescribed drugs is ADVANCED Life Support.

Apparently you are confusing the acronyms BLS, and EMT. They are not interchangeable terms. EMT does not necessarily equal BLS. And you cheapen both the seriousness of the interventions and the EMT's who are performing them by calling them "BLS" just because they are an EMT. I thought you were the one against basic bashing here.

Dust just because someone is an EMT doesn't make him or her a loser! I know EMT's with college degrees in Athletic Training/Sports Medicine, Health Sciences and Nursing.

Soooo... what exactly does that have to do with what I said? :?

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Incorrect. If a lay person can't do it, it is ALS. All pre-hospital pharmacology involving prescribed drugs is ADVANCED Life Support.

Apparently you are confusing the acronyms BLS, and EMT. They are not interchangeable terms. EMT does not necessarily equal BLS. And you cheapen both the seriousness of the interventions and the EMT's who are performing them by calling them "BLS" just because they are an EMT. I thought you were the one against basic bashing here.

Soooo... what exactly does that have to do with what I said? :?

1. If your specifying 'prescribed drugs past layperson education, you are correct. Your prior terminology left enough to the imagination that i had to hit you with it.

2. The 2nd response is semantics. EMT's perform BLS. They dont perform ALS. The terms can be used interchangably when in the context of a thread discussing EMT's.

3. Im against bashing of basic's based on cert level. Remember, im usually the one agreeing with you wholeheartedly when bashing on stupidity. Just a general clarification. The initial post i referenced was a generalized bash which was poorly placed at best.

In the mean time, always a pleasure to disagree with you sir.

PRPG