Difficulties with Paramedics as EMT's

[EmergencyMedicalTigger]

EMT: "Boohoo, my paramedic partner won't let me do anything but 02 and drive-that really hurt my feelings."

solution: Learn what your partner needs assistance with that you can help do. Be more proactive in your learning. If you're really that upset about your limitations-go to school to get a higher cert.

Paramedic: "My EMT partner asks too many questions. He just needs to turn on the 02 and drive."

solution: Be more open to answering questions (they're usually asked with sincerity). Encourage the EMT to expand his knowledge base. Maybe this will enable him to assist you more and create interest in obtaining a higher cert/becoming a better EMT.

Oh yeah, and some of the stuff Nate said was pretty good too

[firemedic78]

Nate: Grow the hell up or go find another career path to follow, this field is to damn important to have a bunch of babies who can't get along.

110% correct. We are complaining about low pay, not being considered a 'profession'...but we treat each other this way. He said, she said...EMT saves Paramedic, Paragod tells basic to drive and hook up some O2...etc

You know, just my .02 :roll: ...maybe if we stopped and though about how 'professionals' acted, we would see that some of us don't set a 'professional' example for newbies and in the public eye.

Not to mention the 'Paragods' needs to remember where he/she started. We all start from the ground and work our way up... We all had a question here and there too! How must effort does it take to answer a question while performing a task. Can you drive and talk? Can you talk and stick an IV? Do you talk to your patients while doing a task...why can't you answer a question to a newbie? don't assume the question is directed at you to "question your authority or knowledge"...maybe they just don't know!

Play nice...we're all on the same team.

[hfdff422]

As long as the newbie is asking pertinent questions at appropriate times. Too often the gung-ho whacker type will ask inappropriate questions. Such as; "Your ALS, shouldn't you intubate him" in front of a Conscious patient who had difficulty breathing, or the watcha-doin-now syndrome. I've seen both examples in action.

[DCMed124]

they thought their month of night school taught them everything they needed to know about emergency medicine.

ok... that's just sad and a good rationale why tigers eat their young.

[weasel 108]

Well, since no one thus far has a idea what this thread was meant for, let me offer an example, and others can follow in kind.

Issues with medics from the BLS level

1.) Paragod mentalities. Simply stated, the "i am god, and no one measures up to me"

2.) you went to school to become a medic. I know your tired, but when your sleepy, chest pain doesnt become BLS.

3.) If I ask you a question, it doesnt mean i dont know the answer, im likely making sure were on the same wavelength.

4.)If I dont complain about my 10 charts, dont complain about 1 code. I dont care. You went to medic school to treat ALS patients. Deal with it, no whining.

5.) You dont need 30-20g needles, 400 alcohol swabs, 80 tournequets. These is NO REASON to stock the truck 4 times past the state standards. This is a sign of insecurity.

6.)If the patients obviously BLS, why do you have to start the assessment? Thumb lac is a thumb lac, yo.

More to come...with positive answers to making this better.

PRPG, with some of the EMT's that you and I know about in our area, can you blame the medic if they do the assessment instead of the EMT. :wink:

[Medic723]

Not to mention the 'Paragods' needs to remember where he/she started. We all start from the ground and work our way up...

I have had a reality check here lately. I have been a medic for over 15 yrs. I just recently change agencies, until I take my boards with the medical director I have to function as a basic. Talk about a challenge. It is almost impossible to not do what I am trained to do. It has definitely curbed my paragodness.[/font:27c9b19b9b]

[djcokely]

Well, since no one thus far has a idea what this thread was meant for, let me offer an example, and others can follow in kind.

Issues with medics from the BLS level

1.) Paragod mentalities. Simply stated, the "i am god, and no one measures up to me"

2.) you went to school to become a medic. I know your tired, but when your sleepy, chest pain doesnt become BLS.

3.) If I ask you a question, it doesnt mean i dont know the answer, im likely making sure were on the same wavelength.

4.)If I dont complain about my 10 charts, dont complain about 1 code. I dont care. You went to medic school to treat ALS patients. Deal with it, no whining.

5.) You dont need 30-20g needles, 400 alcohol swabs, 80 tournequets. These is NO REASON to stock the truck 4 times past the state standards. This is a sign of insecurity.

6.)If the patients obviously BLS, why do you have to start the assessment? Thumb lac is a thumb lac, yo.

More to come...with positive answers to making this better.

WHERE TO START? IN ORDER I GUESS...i DONT KNOW WHERE YOU WORK HAVE WORKED BUT THE ONLY THING THE PARAMEDIC HAS TO "PECK ON" IS THE EMT BECAUSE MOSTLY, WHERE I AM FROM M.D'S PECK ON US. IT IS NOT A GOD COMPLEX BY ANY MEANS WHAT SO EVER. I HATE THAT TERM. THE REASON IT IS THERE IS BECAUSE THE DIFF. BETWEEN AN EMT B AND AN EMT P IS SO BIG.

I AM ALL FOR INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF CLASSROOM TIME FOR EMT B'S AND MAKING IV PLACEMENT WITH NS OR LR A NATIONAL STANDARD AS WELL AS GLUCAGON, NARCAN (ANY ROUTE), CHARCOAL (AFTER ONLINE MEDICAL DIRECTION), ALBUTEROL COMBIVENT VIA NEB, NITRO, AND HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS.... PR VALIUM GEL FOR PEDS AND ADULTS. THESE MEDS ARE ESSENTIAL AND EASY TO REMEMBER THE INDICATIONS AND CONTRAINDICATIONS FOR...SIMPLY PUT. I THINK THE EMT CAN BE TRAINED VERY EASILY TO HAVE A LARGER SCOPE AND I THINK IT IS VERY POOR THAT THE NATIONAL STANDARD IS SO LOW.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE SO MANY EMT'S WHO DONT CARE AND LEARN THE MINIMUM AND ONLY DO WHAT THEY ARE ASKED AND THE WILL NOT DO AN ASSESMENT PRIOR TO ALS ARRIVAL BUT JUST GET A CC AND A SET OF VITALS. THEY ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE THE LOWEST ON THE CHAIN. B.S. YOU WANT RESPECT FROM A MEDIC, EARN IT. ASK QUESTIONS AND SHOW HIM THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO LEARN ON YOUR OWN OR ARE TAKING ACLS, PALS, PHTLS, AND AMLS,. PROVE TO ME THAT IF I ASK YOU TO DO A TRACTION SPINT YOU CAN DO IT.

AS FAR AS THE 12 LEAD... NO WAY...SORRY MOST MEDICS CANT FULLY READ A 12 LEAD. SIMPLY PUT. I USED TO SEE THIS BLS RIG AT UCLA (WHO WERE EMT D'S) BRING PATIENTS IN ATTACHED TO THE AED BECAUSE IT DISPLAYED THE RHYTHM ON THE AED....CRAZY.

A LOT OF CHEST PAINS ARE BLS, CHEST WALL TENDERNESS IS A MUSCULAR PROBLEM, PNUEMONIA IN A YOUNG ADULT CAN CAUSE IT...THERE ARE A BILLION REASONS WHY CHEST PAIN IS NOT 100% ALS.

COMPLAINING ABOUT A CODE IS A PERSONAL THING, MOST MEDICS USE "CODES" AS PRACTICE OR A TIME TO REALLY SHINE AND REALLY ACTUALLY SAVE A LIFE, SO THAT IS NOT A MEDIC THING, IT IS A PERSONAL THING.

REGARDING THE "OVERSTOCKING OF THE RIG", YOU SAY THAT NOW BUT WHEN AN OLD MAN HITS THE GAS INSTEAD OF THE BRAKES AND PLOWS THROUGH A STREET FULL OF PEOPLE DURING A FARMERS MARKET IN SANTA MONICA AND YOUR UNIT IS STOCKED TO THE BRIM WITH EXTRA SUPPLIES, YOU WILL LOOK DAMN COMPETENT AND NOT INSECURE. STATE STANDARDS ARE B.S. AND ARE THE VERY BOTTOM LIMIT. A GOOD MEDIC WILL HAVE AT LEAST DOUBLE THE AMOUNT BUT HAVE THEM IN SEPERATE PLACES IN CASE YOU LOSE SOMETHING OR FORGET TO RESTOCK OR THERE IS A MCI ETC...

IF IT IS A THUMB LAC ONLY THEN WHY IS THERE AN ASSEMSSMENT BEYOND "WHY DID YOU CAL 911". IF YOU WANT TO DO A FULL ASSESSMENT AND WORK THAT PT UP AND TRANS, GO RIGHT AHEAD.

EMT'S ARE BELOW PARAMEDICS SIMPLE AS THAT. I FIRMLY AGREE THAT THEY SHOLD HAVE A BROADER SCOPE. HOWEVER, AS AN INSTRUCTOR YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE SOME OF THE INCOMPETENCE I SEE DURING RE-CERTS. SO IF YOU DONT EVEN KNOW YOUR BASIC SHIT, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE RESPECT AND THE ABILITY TO EXPAND YOUR SCOPE?

DONT BLAME THE MEDIC, LOOK AT YOUR SELF. YOU CAN NOT BE A GOOD EMT WITHOUT BEING A GOOD MEDIC.

A GOOD EMT WILL ANTICIPATE THE MEDIC'S NEEDS AND WILL MAKE HISHER LIFE EASIER, AND THUS MAKE BETTER TX FOR THE PT. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

[Scaramedic]

You're shouting. :director:

Peace,

Marty

:thumbleft:

[Dustdevil]

WHERE TO START?

Start with the CAPS LOCK button.

But, other than that, nice rant. :wink:

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

WHERE TO START? IN ORDER I GUESS...i DONT KNOW WHERE YOU WORK HAVE WORKED BUT THE ONLY THING THE PARAMEDIC HAS TO "PECK ON" IS THE EMT BECAUSE MOSTLY, WHERE I AM FROM M.D'S PECK ON US. IT IS NOT A GOD COMPLEX BY ANY MEANS WHAT SO EVER. I HATE THAT TERM. THE REASON IT IS THERE IS BECAUSE THE DIFF. BETWEEN AN EMT B AND AN EMT P IS SO BIG.

So because the MD "pecks" on you, you have to peck on your partner EMT? Treat your BLS partner with respect is all the GOD complex refers to.

I AM ALL FOR INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF CLASSROOM TIME FOR EMT B'S AND MAKING IV PLACEMENT WITH NS OR LR A NATIONAL STANDARD AS WELL AS GLUCAGON, NARCAN (ANY ROUTE), CHARCOAL (AFTER ONLINE MEDICAL DIRECTION), ALBUTEROL COMBIVENT VIA NEB, NITRO, AND HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS.... PR VALIUM GEL FOR PEDS AND ADULTS. THESE MEDS ARE ESSENTIAL AND EASY TO REMEMBER THE INDICATIONS AND CONTRAINDICATIONS FOR...SIMPLY PUT. I THINK THE EMT CAN BE TRAINED VERY EASILY TO HAVE A LARGER SCOPE AND I THINK IT IS VERY POOR THAT THE NATIONAL STANDARD IS SO LOW.

Raise the basic level to intermediate standards....i can dig that. Agreed. Side note, this wasnt even a part of this discussion. Stay on topic.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE SO MANY EMT'S WHO DONT CARE AND LEARN THE MINIMUM AND ONLY DO WHAT THEY ARE ASKED AND THE WILL NOT DO AN ASSESMENT PRIOR TO ALS ARRIVAL BUT JUST GET A CC AND A SET OF VITALS. THEY ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE THE LOWEST ON THE CHAIN. B.S.

Agreed. Sad, isnt it?

YOU WANT RESPECT FROM A MEDIC, EARN IT. ASK QUESTIONS AND SHOW HIM THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO LEARN ON YOUR OWN OR ARE TAKING ACLS, PALS, PHTLS, AND AMLS,. PROVE TO ME THAT IF I ASK YOU TO DO A TRACTION SPINT YOU CAN DO IT.

Actually, god complex boy,...I dont have to prove a damn thing to you. Your stuck with me, so now its a two way street. You want to know where im at, ask. I want to know how you work, ill ask.Im not getting on the truck with you on the first tour to run though skills so you can further feel "god-like". Period.

Side note, if you want that, i want to see you do a stick, a line, tube a airway manekin, tell me the adverse effects of every med you push, while standing on your head and spinning plate on your toe.

EMS reject, rears its incompetent head.

You have questions? Ask. Want to quiz me? Lets do it. I will not go out of my way to prove to you I can do my job. If you expect that, your lucky a few basics havent whooped your as$ and left you on the wrong block in LA.

Thank you for the god complex illustration.

AS FAR AS THE 12 LEAD... NO WAY...SORRY MOST MEDICS CANT FULLY READ A 12 LEAD. SIMPLY PUT. I USED TO SEE THIS BLS RIG AT UCLA (WHO WERE EMT D'S) BRING PATIENTS IN ATTACHED TO THE AED BECAUSE IT DISPLAYED THE RHYTHM ON THE AED....CRAZY.

huh?

A LOT OF CHEST PAINS ARE BLS, CHEST WALL TENDERNESS IS A MUSCULAR PROBLEM, PNUEMONIA IN A YOUNG ADULT CAN CAUSE IT...THERE ARE A BILLION REASONS WHY CHEST PAIN IS NOT 100% ALS.

Semantics. I used the chest pain example of medics triaging obviously ALS patients BLS.

COMPLAINING ABOUT A CODE IS A PERSONAL THING, MOST MEDICS USE "CODES" AS PRACTICE OR A TIME TO REALLY SHINE AND REALLY ACTUALLY SAVE A LIFE, SO THAT IS NOT A MEDIC THING, IT IS A PERSONAL THING.

I dont care why your whining about your code. Its your job. Shut up and do it. No whining.

REGARDING THE "OVERSTOCKING OF THE RIG", YOU SAY THAT NOW BUT WHEN AN OLD MAN HITS THE GAS INSTEAD OF THE BRAKES AND PLOWS THROUGH A STREET FULL OF PEOPLE DURING A FARMERS MARKET IN SANTA MONICA AND YOUR UNIT IS STOCKED TO THE BRIM WITH EXTRA SUPPLIES, YOU WILL LOOK DAMN COMPETENT AND NOT INSECURE. STATE STANDARDS ARE B.S. AND ARE THE VERY BOTTOM LIMIT. A GOOD MEDIC WILL HAVE AT LEAST DOUBLE THE AMOUNT BUT HAVE THEM IN SEPERATE PLACES IN CASE YOU LOSE SOMETHING OR FORGET TO RESTOCK OR THERE IS A MCI ETC...

bullshit. you have other ambulances coming in with supplies. double your stock for what, so the next due doesnt need a thing? Thats crap. its insecurity.

.

Well thanks pumpkin.

EMT'S ARE BELOW PARAMEDICS SIMPLE AS THAT. I FIRMLY AGREE THAT THEY SHOLD HAVE A BROADER SCOPE. HOWEVER, AS AN INSTRUCTOR YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE SOME OF THE INCOMPETENCE I SEE DURING RE-CERTS. SO IF YOU DONT EVEN KNOW YOUR BASIC Ca Ca, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE RESPECT AND THE ABILITY TO EXPAND YOUR SCOPE?

This is a problem with educators, like you and I, and the standards students are held to. Nothing else.

DONT BLAME THE MEDIC, LOOK AT YOUR SELF. YOU CAN NOT BE A GOOD EMT WITHOUT BEING A GOOD MEDIC.

Agreed.

A GOOD EMT WILL ANTICIPATE THE MEDIC'S NEEDS AND WILL MAKE HISHER LIFE EASIER, AND THUS MAKE BETTER TX FOR THE PT. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

meh. A good EMT will be able to competently able to perform all procedures within his scope, master BLS pharmacology, and general EMS operations. A great EMT, will perform said skills, while taking a patient history, and drawing up your Epi.