Female patients and all male crew

[Ridryder 911]

It would be nice if the world was all perfect.. but here is the deal.. you get whom you get. To try to get a specific gender is a nice wish... that is it. If I am your nurse, Paramedic.. that's it. If you appear to be uncomfortable if I have to cath or assist in pelvics... then, I will TRY I will get someone else if available.. chances are.. I'm it.

Yes, it is a double standard.. and yes, you have to be careful.. i.e if possible witnesses, time. But folks, if their going to claim something, it does not matter whom, where it occurs.

I come across a professional, to point of no-nonsense affect .. most know when I do a procedure, it is my job and yes, I am empathetic but not overly warm. In our EMS units, we have type III, so the driver and back compartment is in plain site..

Like Dust described... you get the luck of the draw.. staffing EMS and ER with gender based is unreasonable, and not it does not matter their c/c .. just be careful, use appropriate wording, perform what is necessary. Document .. document ...document..

Be safe,

R/r911

[hammerpcp]

We had a psych transfer the other night of a 19 year old who was drunk and said that she wanted to kill herself. Well, her parents took her seriously and called the PD. We picked her up at one hospital's ER and took her to another. When we get there, the nurse asks if we had a female crew available. Well, we didn't and we had to transport her. Personally, I do not feel comfortable transporting a female psych patient of any age. All they have to do is make one comment about inappropriate behavior and you're screwed. Whether or not it is true. Fortunately, on this run, I was able to find a female ER tech I know and the nursing manager agreed to let her ride with us in the back as a witness. As a rule, when I transport female patients (psych or not), ALL of the lights in the medic are on as bright as they go.

Actually, there was a question in all of this. What do your departments/services do to prevent such incidents? I know of one service who has 2 cameras in all of their medics. One above the jump seat looking rearward and the other above the back doors looking forward. They are digitally recorded and the box is locked up in a compartment and the only ones with the keys are the chief officers. All of the DVD's are locked up in the chief's office. In case you're wondering, they have cleared all of this with their attorneys and there hasn't been any HIPAA violations.

One key thing that we are missing here, is is this even really a problem?

First off how frequently are paramedics even accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour towards Pt's? I know that here, the biggest problem of this nature is coworkers acting sexually inappropriately to one another, or in my experience it is often the pt that acts inappropriately towards me. In 4+ years i have never heard of even an accusation made by a pt that they were sexually harassed/molested etc. by their health care provider. While in school there was an incident of a student (female) acting sexually inappropriately towards their male preceptor. Again, this is a different situation.

Another thing to consider if paramedics are accused of this kind of behaviour is, is it substantiated? I mean to say, that if you have unusually high incidence of accusations of sexual misconduct in your work place, you must consider that most accusations are true and based on actual events.

I am going to assume, for the sake of this discussion, that the original poster is concerned about false accusations.

Another thing to consider is why are we concerned with false accusations of sexually inappropriate conduct on the part of the health care provider arising from psych Pt's? Is this a factually based concern? Do psych Pt's have a higher incidence of falsely accusing paramedics of harassment/molestation/etc.? Again, I have never seen any research done on the subject and even anecdotally don't find this to be any more of a concern then with any other pt.

Basically, my point is that in the grand scheme of things, as far as risk assessment goes, is this even a concern that should be anywhere near the top of the list?

As far as double standards go I am failing to see the relevance of that to this discussion. Yes their is a double standard, but that is the reality of the situation. Women do make accusations much more frequently then men. But this is quite simply explained. Women are victimized much more frequently then men. I don't see the relevance of your complaint AK. Living as a white male in the United states you are part of the most privileged group of people on the planet.

[Scaramedic]

He was very well endowed, and the nurse called all her buds from other departments in the hospital to come take a good look.

I don't remember being in the hosital. :shock:

Peace,

Marty

:thumbleft:

[Nate]

Agreed AK. However, most guys won't file a complaint. :wink:

I would, I've seen some girls that look more like men then most men do. :shock:

[akflightmedic]

I dont remember making a complaint. I just reversed the scenario to show how stupid the argument is.

I agree with you 100 percent hammer and if I could have stated it as eloquently as you, I would have said the same thing.

[EmergencyMedicalTigger]

I was told, in a "matter-of-fact" way, by the black assistant chief that if I were black, I would have the job. The city was on a hire a minority kick. I think this is total BS. I was told by a judge friend of mine that a court case would never stick and "reverse discrimination" doesn't exist. Granted, in theory it does, but not practically.

just a side note...check out Firefighters v. Stotts (1984)

There's really not such a thing as "reverse discrimination." Discrimination is discrimination no matter which side you're looking at it from-black/white, male/female. According to the US Supreme Court, the type of situation you encountered is unconstititutional and illegal.

[ALERT Medic]

I think this could be a hot topic.

First of all, I think too many people have been watching too much television. I've read all the posts and for those paranoid paramedics out there...if you're that worried, get a female nurse to go with you. I tend to agree with the others who have posed the question of how common this happens. I mean, think about it folks. If you are a good medic with a good reputation for delivering excellent care and displaying outstanding professionalism and you happen to be one of the very few medic's that ever get accused of something inappropriate with a female psych patient, I don't know how far it'd really go. The doc's should know you well enough to be able to consider it to be a bull sh!t accusation. Most of these patients will be doing the same crap when you get them to the hospital anyway.

Lighten up a little bit. If you're that paranoid about a call like this maybe you should look for another profession. There's way too many other opportunities for us to get caught up in some trouble. Think about it.

[buckeyedoc]

One key thing that we are missing here, is is this even really a problem?

First off how frequently are paramedics even accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour towards Pt's? I know that here, the biggest problem of this nature is coworkers acting sexually inappropriately to one another, or in my experience it is often the pt that acts inappropriately towards me. In 4+ years i have never heard of even an accusation made by a pt that they were sexually harassed/molested etc. by their health care provider. While in school there was an incident of a student (female) acting sexually inappropriately towards their male preceptor. Again, this is a different situation.

Another thing to consider if paramedics are accused of this kind of behaviour is, is it substantiated? I mean to say, that if you have unusually high incidence of accusations of sexual misconduct in your work place, you must consider that most accusations are true and based on actual events.

I am going to assume, for the sake of this discussion, that the original poster is concerned about false accusations.

Another thing to consider is why are we concerned with false accusations of sexually inappropriate conduct on the part of the health care provider arising from psych Pt's? Is this a factually based concern? Do psych Pt's have a higher incidence of falsely accusing paramedics of harassment/molestation/etc.? Again, I have never seen any research done on the subject and even anecdotally don't find this to be any more of a concern then with any other pt.

Basically, my point is that in the grand scheme of things, as far as risk assessment goes, is this even a concern that should be anywhere near the top of the list?

As far as double standards go I am failing to see the relevance of that to this discussion. Yes their is a double standard, but that is the reality of the situation. Women do make accusations much more frequently then men. But this is quite simply explained. Women are victimized much more frequently then men. I don't see the relevance of your complaint AK. Living as a white male in the United states you are part of the most privileged group of people on the planet.

Hammer, well, I am the original poster and yes, I do worry about false accusations. I've spent 14 years building my repuation and I'm not letting anyone, male or female, have an opportunity to tarnish it. So you don't think someone who has tried to kill themself as a way to get attention would make up a story to try to get some attention. If so, you're living in a fool's paranoid. Some people will stop any nothing to have their 15 minutes of fame. Any accusation, whether false or not, is going to get the person pulled from the road until the matter can be investigated, regardless if the accusation is of a sexual nature, an abuse issue or theft issue. Also, in case you missed it, the nurse at the ER was the one who asked about a female crew member. Perhaps she knew something I didn't. If I wasn't able to find my ER tech friend, I would have made the run regardless.

Now, hammer, if I may direct your attention to the large, red text from your quoted post. My partner at work has his career firefighter certification and his paramedic card. He tested for a large fire department and scored a 96% on the written exam. The dept. had 190 people take the exam. He took the physical agility and was the 4th highest score. He had his psych. interview and passed (don't ask me how ). He received a letter in the mail stating that he had to retake the physical agility and scored a bit higher than the first time. A couple of months goes by and doesn't hear anything from administration. He assumed that they had their list and he wasn't on it. Well, he got another letter in the mail saying the same thing, report for the physical agility test. He went to the chief's office to find out why he had to take the same physical agility 3 times. The secretary said that they didn't have enough women or minorities pass all parts of the exam process, so they were re-administering all exams until they had a pool of enough women or minorities. Regardless if I am a white male in the US or a black male in the US, if I bust my arse and provide for my family, then I'm privledged. I'm not privileged simply because I am white in the US. So bug off!

[Dustdevil]

I am the original poster and yes, I do worry about false accusations. I've spent 14 years building my repuation and I'm not letting anyone, male or female, have an opportunity to tarnish it.

Then why is it you are concerned about having a third-party "witness" only with suicidal females instead of all patients?

[buckeyedoc]

Then why is it you are concerned about having a third-party "witness" only with suicidal females instead of all patients?

If there is any patient, male or female, who is mentally unbalanced and a witness might be warranted, you can bet your butt I will have a witness. Especially when the referring facility requests it. It's amazing how a question I pose to the City about other services' policies and procedures regarding crew integrity turns into an attack on someone's motives.