Dustdevil Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 :roll: if i could only buy a clue as to why you read too far into a thread... I am not concerned with the seeking out the 'fastest way' to paramedic, or the whining of how many more skills without paramedic school. My question was a question of if intermediates should be able to use it. there are a lot of services that do...and a lot that do not. This was not a 'why can't i push more drugs and not go to paramedic school' thread, though you seem to read it that way. No sir, I did not misread the thread. I took the thread in the genuine spirit in which you intended it. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is if you ask a question and then don't want to hear the answers people offer. Anyhow, this isn't about you personally. This is about your last post in which you spoke about all intermediates, not just yourself. And, the conventional wisdom here is that you are wrong. An extremely large number of EMT's and intermediates DO live with the impression that they should be given greater scope without exponentially greater education. You would have to be in a seriously myopic type of denial to not see that.
nsmedic393 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 i'm sure there are times when paramedics would let an intermediate do something above their scope, but LEGALLY they cannot. This is one of those items. i've been witness to this exact situation. A medic has told an intermediate that he can push it, but he refused because he didn't want to lose his patch. So then the medic had to stop what he was doing, and administer the narcan, then go back to his other duties of patient care. Now, before you read too far into this :roll: , yes he could have done all of it by himself (which he did), but it could have been a bit quicker had help been available. So now the reason for intermediates to give narcan is because it will save 30 seconds for their medic partner. 30 seconds is nothing.
hammerpcp Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Long term withdrawal is not life threatening, but acute withdrawal secondary to a high dose of Narcan is. You are instantly throwing someone into withdrawal, the body reacts violently. Look at the list, I consider arrythmias/tachycardias and seizures life threatening. This is why I believe it should be a Paramedic based intervention only. Peace, Marty :thumbleft: Clearly I should have read your post in its entirety :tard:. I hate to admit it but you're right :oops: Peace?
Scaramedic Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Peace? Of course. :occasion5: Peace, Marty :thumbleft:
TechMedic05 Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Respiratory arrest - Anyone in EMS can fix that. Withdrawal symptoms from opiates - Not everyone can treat those.
Ridryder 911 Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Any EMT-B can TREAT respiratory arrest...not everyone can reverse it. Any EMT-B can also treat/transport withdrawl symptoms, even a seizure with BLS transport (read: load and go). Again, I'd rather deal with the withdrawl than with death. Call me crazy or lazy...that's just me. Brat :wink: Actually that is not correct, they can MANAGE respiratory and seizures, but not really treat them. Basically, non-ALS personnel is doing is preventing harm and maintaining homeostasis so life can be maintained as prior to the event. But, to actually treat the etiology, and stop the seizure activity requires medications and interventions the EMT/B, EMT/I, EMT AA, EMT/IOU, EMT/2B. A. P cannot . R/r 911
nsmedic393 Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Any EMT-B can TREAT respiratory arrest...not everyone can reverse it. Any EMT-B can also treat/transport withdrawl symptoms, even a seizure with BLS transport (read: load and go). Again, I'd rather deal with the withdrawl than with death. Call me crazy or lazy...that's just me. Brat :wink: Brat, I'm an ACP in nova scotia. I can haul out pretty near any drug I want and use it at my own discretion. Yet, when it comes to treating an Opioid overdose I chose to manage the airway and ventilate and use narcan only as a last resort for the can't intubate, cant ventilate patient. So who is incorrect, me or you? While I'm at it, do you think a patient going through a withdrawl seizure would be better treated by your BLS load and go treatment, or by my benzodiazepine treatment?
Dustdevil Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 But again, we HAVE more education. Specific to the US...your medic school isn't that much longer...why not just go whole hog? :dontknow: I don't get your drift. Are you saying we should eliminate the PCP level of provider? :-k If you're saying that more drugs and skills should simply be added to the PCP protocols, that would require a total restructuring or extension of the current PCP curriculum to include the new drugs/skills. You obviously can't just say, "Well, you have two years of school, so go ahead and do x, y, and z, even though you never covered it in school." And US medic school is actually much shorter.
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