Admissions Criteria

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Is it me, or does anyone else think it to be difficult to run admissions, and remain objective, without looking at each applicant specifically, weighing them out, and handpicking your best canadates?

Strikes me as alot of the criterion mentioned should be considered on a case by case basis for ranking....

[Ridryder 911]

No offense taken at all JPINFV. So many of non university setting believes getting into Nursing is like EMS, you pay for it then Wham- O . By far I am not the biggest nursing advocate, (ask my professors) lol... but; was trying to elude to some clarification. Yes, all education is worthy and definitely organic would be nice.. but in the long schemes of things for application purposes, I would love to see the Paramedic have a basic understanding of general science. Ask almost an Paramedic about Krebs cycle and how sodium and K= pump theory and watch them shudder...

The reason you do not see research by EMS for EMS is because for academia standards, true research must be carried out by no less than graduate level students supervised by Doctorate levels. Undergrads can perform or obtain the data, however; graduate (preferred) level is to compose for quantification. Institutional Review Boards (IRB) is very picky who performs, what type of studies, and the controls as well as medical ethics is overseen. Again research is very costly and time consuming, (not saying it should not be done) performing some test would take years to perform since a most of EMS would have to have quasi-experimental with quantitative and qualitative mixture. Very little true quantitative research could be performed in the field, which medicine particulars like.

PRPG you are right, like medical school, even nursing school each applicant should be reviewed individually and worth some basic ground work to meet to get that interview. That almost all those profession as well monitor the job market, with fluctuating numbers of students. Check medical and nursing school entry level numbers they are never consistent.. again they do not flood the market. Makes sense and very professional.

I believe we are in one BIG AGREEMENT, definitely more educational requirements rather than just applying like it is done now. Like I have over emphasized, it is way too easy to become a Paramedic. The curriculum is easy (I don't care which school) and the board test are a breeze in comparison to other medical specialties. If it was not very few would ever leave the profession, too much hard work, time, an money would had been invested.

Be safe, R/r 911

[Nate]

While more education is never bad, there can be too much as a prereq (think about rolling some of these into your program instead of being a -prereq). That's 36 courses, not including labs (2 quarters of labs for physics, G-chem, and O-Chem...). At 4 courses a quarter, that's 3 years of school, unless you are willing to count high school courses for the science courses (I wouldn't). These requirements, by comparison, are over twice as much as required by the standard medical school (year of bio, year of G-chem, year of O-Chem, year of math. requirements vary). This, of course, isn't counting the other breadth requirements the school might require (foreign language, international issues, intercultural studies, humanities, etc). You would be hard pressed to finish in 4 years because of the unaddressed upper-division course.

Those courses that I listed were pretty much a mirror of most of the nursing programs here in Texas. I don't know where your looking at medical school, but you need a hell of a lot more then that to get a basic biology degree. I only listed 16 classes above, so if you took four a semester for four semesters (2 years) you would only be at two years. Combine that with a 2 year paramedic certification program and you have four years. If they can't finish a degree at 12 to 15 hours a semester then maybe we should reconsider if we really want them in here. We CANNOT continue to hold people's hands and make it "easy" for them to get through the paramedic program. When more of a shortage starts happening for paramedics, the pay will go up, and we will start attracting better people to the programs.

[web:f89be90dc1]http://www.stthom.edu/academics/schools/artssciences/biology/programs/major.html[/web:f89be90dc1]

Should para-medicine go towards a graduate level and/or multilevel education level style of certification/education (think nursing on this one. They have certificate, ASN, BS-nursing, MSN, advanced practice, and starting to develop doctorate levels of education)? In the long run, yes. That said, it would be hard to attract a college level graduate with $10-40k+ in debt as it is.

Hard to attract them to a graduate level education? If the pay, rewards, and benefits were there, I don't think so. However, we haven't really created a "need" for graduate level paramedics. We are kind of in a rut. We are the pre-hospital providers, and we will always be limited by what we can do, and how far up in medicine we can move. It would take the acceptance of paramedics into the ER as front line providers and the doctor's right hand man/woman before we could start to think about a graduate level provider.

Another option is to pressure your local university to start a medic program. Its time to expand BS-Para-medicine past only a hand full of schools. Some of these classes need to be put into the medic education. Have the first two years focus on the holistic education (the entry sciences [physics, g-chem, intro bio, etc], the medico legal, the communication, and the rest of the breadth). The next two years are the paramedic education.

We are there, almost every community college down here in the south has at least the EMT-B, if not the EMT-P program. We just need to advance it out of the community colleges and into the four year universities, which is a tough battle because most don't see a market for the program. There would be more of a chance if the state was pushed into helping the cause.

[JPINFV]

Those courses that I listed were pretty much a mirror of most of the nursing programs here in Texas. I don't know where your looking at medical school, but you need a hell of a lot more then that to get a basic biology degree. I only listed 16 classes above, so if you took four a semester for four semesters (2 years) you would only be at two years. Combine that with a 2 year paramedic certification program and you have four years. If they can't finish a degree at 12 to 15 hours a semester then maybe we should reconsider if we really want them in here. We CANNOT continue to hold people's hands and make it "easy" for them to get through the paramedic program. When more of a shortage starts happening for paramedics, the pay will go up, and we will start attracting better people to the programs.

[web:fb7a7fc302]http://www.stthom.edu/academics/schools/artssciences/biology/programs/major.html[/web:fb7a7fc302]

Medical schools don't require you to have a biology degree to get in, though (common myth, even among pre-meds). Its actually better if you're not (53% of math majors get in, 52% of humanities majors get in, only 45% of bio majors get in ) because you stand out. The requirements for a bio degree, though, are much more then required to get in. My school has 5 quarter classes (4 units each) of lower division and then 3 major upperdivsion courses, 3 upper division labs, and 4 upper division labs (plus G chem, O chem, physics, math). Besides this, you also need to take breadth. The point I was trying to make was that the pre-reqs stated would take 3 years and then you would have trouble finishing with a BS in 4 years.

[Dustdevil]

Ahem...! Let's get back on topic, please.

[frostii]

ok all of your pre-reqs are fine, but hwat if i did not have a good gpa in hs? what if i did not have direction and i was lost? what if i've found my true calling and now im trying to get in but noone will give me a chance? should grades and experience in the field be everything? unfortunately i've applied to hospitals 10000000 times and all they say is that they need someone with either experience or a cna certificate, what am i to do? im not even given a chance. and most volunteer work in hospitals has minimal patient contact, and i cannot lift to save my life so i cant volunteer for a fire department either, this is frustrating.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

ok all of your pre-reqs are fine, but hwat if i did not have a good gpa in hs? what if i did not have direction and i was lost? what if i've found my true calling and now im trying to get in but noone will give me a chance? should grades and experience in the field be everything? unfortunately i've applied to hospitals 10000000 times and all they say is that they need someone with either experience or a cna certificate, what am i to do? im not even given a chance. and most volunteer work in hospitals has minimal patient contact, and i cannot lift to save my life so i cant volunteer for a fire department either, this is frustrating.

If you cant lift to save your life, and want patient contact, go be a MD. EMS wont be a fruitful experience for you.

*now returned to your regularly scheduled thread*

[JPINFV]

Ahem...! Let's get back on topic, please.

I disagree that that was drastically off topic. If we are to discuss pre-reqs, discussing the time line that would be needed to complete them is valid, as well as comparing to other health care professions.

ok all of your pre-reqs are fine, but hwat if i did not have a good gpa in hs? what if i did not have direction and i was lost? what if i've found my true calling and now im trying to get in but noone will give me a chance? should grades and experience in the field be everything? unfortunately i've applied to hospitals 10000000 times and all they say is that they need someone with either experience or a cna certificate, what am i to do? im not even given a chance. and most volunteer work in hospitals has minimal patient contact, and i cannot lift to save my life so i cant volunteer for a fire department either, this is frustrating.

Should grades and experience be everything? No, but close. How else can you objectively compare students? There are ways to increase your GPA, though. Take a few community college classes, either working towards a degree or because the class seems fun. The grades should count into your GPA when applying as well as make you more marketable then other students. The other thing that we can do is develop a standard admissions test since grades can highly depend on the difficulty of the course/school or grade inflation.

The fact is that EMS should require students to be able to understand science. Not everyone can (not saying you can/can't handle biology. I don't enough about you to even begin to touch that). Nothing against those who can't, the person just needs to know their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I can't stand philosophy (but it did provide the best hour of sleep I think I've ever gotten for 3 days a week). Therefore, I would refuse to major in it. While grades and experience might be the best indication of an applicants ability to do well, there isn't very many other options.

[Dustdevil]

I disagree that that was drastically off topic. If we are to discuss pre-reqs, discussing the time line that would be needed to complete them is valid, as well as comparing to other health care professions.

If you disagree, then you misread the original post. It very specifically said that I did NOT want discussion. And especially not discussion of what you think of other people's ideas. I only wanted you to list your own ideas.

Okay, so how about preference to Veterans? Anybody believe in that?

Again, please, NO debate. Just tell me what you think, not your opinions of what other people think.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

If you disagree, then you misread the original post. It very specifically said that I did NOT want discussion. And especially not discussion of what you think of other people's ideas. I only wanted you to list your own ideas.

Okay, so how about preference to Veterans? Anybody believe in that?

Again, please, NO debate. Just tell me what you think, not your opinions of what other people think.

No. Veteran status doesnt quantify you as a potentially good medic student. Vetran status as a field medic in one of our fine millitary services...different story.

PRPG