Tactical EMT Certification?

[Asysin2leads]

I agree with everything that has been said above, although I'm still not sure what a 'mall ninja' is, but it sounds really funny. I'm not sure who ever came up with the idea of tactical medicine, but I have a feeling they had a subscription to Guns and Ammo. If you're really interested in care under fire (an attraction I've just never understood), the Army or Marines would be over joyed to have you, plus you get to shoot back and not get in trouble. Otherwise, concentrate on being in good physical condition and knowing your stuff. Most of these tactical places will pretty much rip you off and send you home with a nice tee shirt and maybe some knowledge that if you ever used would land you in jail with a felony charge.

Our EMT's (and us medics too, to a lesser extent), are expected to do stand bys at high risk warrant executions and go in if someone done gets capped. They have no specialized training, nor are any of them armed (or at least they SHOULDN'T be), but to my knowledge no EMS provider has to date gotten done in on one of these operations. I like to think its because the professional law enforcement officers are doing there job while we do ours and everybody goes home safe.

[FormerEMSLT297]

If you want to go through a "tactical course" I agree with what everyone else said..... most of these week long school will teach you how to get killed.....

Real law enforcement tactical medics .. go through an ENTIRE SWAT school,,,, (my dept. then sends you to a second SWAT school .. to see the differences in team tactics..... then they send you to advanced school like sniper or breaching, then after you survived and put thousands of rounds down range you can go a week long EMT-T school..... but very few teams (NONE THAT I KNOW) will take you simply because you went to a week long CONTOMS or any other EMT-T school.

Concentrate on your EMT-CC class,, then work for a while and if you still are interested join the NAVY.

GO NAVY ,,,,,, 8404 Field Medical Service School ,FMF, Combat Corpsman ,,,,,,,next stop ,,, the SANDBOX...

Corpsman UP. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

best of luck to you

Former

HM2 FMF

blah blah blah,,,,

[somedic]

Corpsmen? Now thats a tree swinging,partying group of cavemen there. Great advice! and I forgot to mention Navy Corpsmen. Thats a good place to start in "tactical medicine". Most people: Marines in particular, love corpsman. Very Respecful MOS.

Good post .

Somedic

[Bulldogmedic]

Ok so this is my first time on this forum and am already a little upset. I do agree with most of the posts regarding the patch and all but I do have to disagree with asysin2leads. I am a new member of the swat team for our pd. We are not armed as of yet anyway but we are needed. We are there to serve the team they are more comfortable with us there and thus can do there job with more intensity because they know we are there if they get hurt. We are going to go to cleet and contoms. I think that this is a new area and people do not understand it. Before you bash the idea you might want to do a little research. Be safe.

[NREMT-Basic]

For what its worth, I recently learned that you can order the "tactical" subued NREMT-B,I, or P from the NREMT. As far as I know, proof that you are registered with the NREMT and the level you want the patch for is the only thing that is necessary. Someone mentioned Blackwater. I have recently been in touch with them and they run an "uptraining" course from civilian to tactical medic. There are a few catches though. You must have been military for at least 5 years, prefereably spec ops, or you have to have been SWAT for a number of years, etc....basically all of the things that would give you so called tactical experience. Also, to enter their training program, which they will only allow you to do if you sign a contract saying that you will work for them for x number of years if you complete the training. Also, you must hold at least EMT-I to start, in addition to the tactical work background. They will not uptrain Basics. Lets let the guys with the hashmarks who also have medic training do the tactical work. There are enough of them to go around. they dont need us stumbling onto their hot scene and getting in the way. I see the allure of it, but it really isnt just as easy as being SWAT and and EMT of some level. Ive done alot of talking to people on this sight about it and it can be a pretty complicated thing to achieve. While there are many schools out there that will provide you with "run and gun" and defensive driving, and there is even a company that offers a weekend long course (DOH!) in tactical medicine. But its just that, its a course. I dont think anyone interested in the field of TEMS should imagine that you could do it without first being on a tactical team of some kind like SWAT and that means being a LEO first as far as I know.

[Bulldogmedic]

I do agree with you that someone with no training should definitely not be in there but we are getting training and we train with the swat team every time they train which is twice a month. We will be going to cleet and might eventually carry guns but out primary objective is to care for the members of the team. I know that just going to a week long class will not make me an expert but that and continuous training will help. I could care less about the patches the NREMT offers. I am a paramedic and have been for about 8 years and been in EMS total for 10. All the medics on out team are well experienced and had to pass and application and interview process with the swat team. I just think that people should look into all the responsiblities of the team medic before saying there is no need for them.

[Dustdevil]

I just think that people should look into all the responsiblities of the team medic before saying there is no need for them.

I'm not really saying there is no need for SWAT medics as much as I am saying that there is no need for SWAT teams themselves.

[NREMT-Basic]

I do agree with you that someone with no training should definitely not be in there but we are getting training and we train with the swat team every time they train which is twice a month. We will be going to cleet and might eventually carry guns but out primary objective is to care for the members of the team. I know that just going to a week long class will not make me an expert but that and continuous training will help. I could care less about the patches the NREMT offers. I am a paramedic and have been for about 8 years and been in EMS total for 10. All the medics on out team are well experienced and had to pass and application and interview process with the swat team. I just think that people should look into all the responsiblities of the team medic before saying there is no need for them.

I cant say that there is no need for a SWAT team medic anymore than I can agree or disagree with Dust that there is no need for a SWAT team. But my concern is the very real possibility of you and your medical team getting dead. OK. Lets say you and your team are on the scene of a warrant service to protect the members of the SWAT service. They breach the door and introduce a couple of diversion devices: Bang! Bang! All hell breaks loose as they use speed and violence of action (stealth time now being over) to enter and overpower the inhabitants of the dwelling. 1. Where is your team? Are you standing outside waiting for them to clear the house? If so why dont you just stage 100 feet out of the kill zone down the street. I claim absolutely no knowledge of tactical medicine and in fact I have come to learn that that is a nebulously defined term at best. But the fact of the matter is that most SWAT operations, in terms of the breach to handcuff time frame, are over in minutes. So I just cant see how it would be worth it to say, have you and your medical team, hiding behind ballistic shields or blankets in the yard or out on the street. If a SWAT officer takes a round in the leg, you are going to be able to get there with due dilligence if you are staged at some realistic distance. If a SWAT officer takes a round in the face, if you were the guy right behind him, there wouldnt be a thing you could do. Its really alot the same as when my dad was detective. They would often go in behind SWAT to execute the actual warrant with the SWAT acting as a breach and secure team. But he WAS armed and there was still absolutely no reason that he needed to be in the broohaha that ensues in the seconds of violence right after the breach. Great, put a medical team on staff and even have them on standby staged a hundred feet away or around the corner where they drop out of of the convoy before it gets to the target site. It just seems that it would be hard for a SWAT team leader to justify more people in the way to potentially get hurt, because just as the medic on a rig is ultimately responsible for what his basic partner does, that SWAT team leader is responsible for you, no matter how many times you reassure him that you can take care of yourself and your team. In Wisconsin recently there was a SWAT action where a team member took one in the vest. Knocked him down. But he was ok and his armed team mates protected him. I dont know. Even if I were the best trained medic in the world and the SWAT team called me and said "hey, we want to put you and several of your amigos on our team to make sure we dont get dead" I think I might say, hey man, thanks for thinking of us, but that really isnt our thing. I have no doubt that you and your team are well trained and that training with SWAT is helpful. But as we can see, unarmed medics are just another target, just another breathing thing that the entry team has to protect if they are with the team on entry. If some sort of standoff occurrs, then maybe its good to have a medic or two or four hanging around down the block, staged and ready to go in the parking lot down the street. But as the Bank robbery in LA a few years ago showed us, there are times when even SWAT is outgunned...I really would hate to read a LODD notification on you and your team. I hope something works out that is satisfactory for your medics, you and the SWAT team, I really do. But when I finish medic school, I just cant see myself feeling comfortable enough to be a part of a SWAT team, as exciting as it might be, especially in the times when we might be needed. I hope it all works out for you. best of luck and stay safe. PS---i am demonstrating my ignorance of either tactical or ALS here, but what is cleet and how will it protect you?

[Bulldogmedic]

Well to start cleet is continuous law enforcement education what it means is that we will be reserve police officers. I am not sure as of yet that we will be armed even after we will just have to wait and see. As far as the warrant and being around the corner I can somewhat see you point, but lets say that we are on the entry team the first officer goes down the team then begins to take out the shooter while we start treatment of the officer. If that office is shot in the neck and needs airway control we can do that or whatever the needs are for the officer. We have special protocols that allow better treatment then on the street as well.On the other hand is a barricaded standoff where the team is there for hours or days even. When something like that occurs then we are responsible for the rotation of officers and keeping them healthy and alert. I agree that it is not for everyone we are lucky to have a good team of medics and officers. We are always learning new ways to defend ourselves and our team. I just think that the faster treatment is started the better. Stay safe.

[medic001918]

Well to start cleet is continuous law enforcement education what it means is that we will be reserve police officers. I am not sure as of yet that we will be armed even after we will just have to wait and see. As far as the warrant and being around the corner I can somewhat see you point, but lets say that we are on the entry team the first officer goes down the team then begins to take out the shooter while we start treatment of the officer. If that office is shot in the neck and needs airway control we can do that or whatever the needs are for the officer. We have special protocols that allow better treatment then on the street as well.On the other hand is a barricaded standoff where the team is there for hours or days even. When something like that occurs then we are responsible for the rotation of officers and keeping them healthy and alert. I agree that it is not for everyone we are lucky to have a good team of medics and officers. We are always learning new ways to defend ourselves and our team. I just think that the faster treatment is started the better. Stay safe.

The problem with your scenario is that if the first officer does go down and there is active shooting, in the hot zone is not the place to begin any kind of treatment. The best treatment that could be provided would be to remove the officer from the situation. That is a scenario that the SWAT team should be trained to deal with, and not one that requires any kind of medical intervention in the hot zone. As for your extended standby situation and keeping the team healthy and alert, this is something that again should be being done outside of the hot zone. There's really a minimal need, if any ever for a medic to be in the hot zone. The injured need extraction prior to treatment, not the other way around. Trying to treat while in the hot zone only adds to the potential for more injured responders. Extract and then begin treatment. That's the safest way to get out of the situation with the minimum number of injured/dead. Keep in mind that these are the opinions of just your normal street medic that works in a busy inner city. I've had the opportunity to do police standby's for situations similar, and not once has it been mentioned or asked that a paramedic enter the hot zone. And this includes responses to the officer down (one of which was killed in the line of duty).

Shane

NREMT-P