Tactical EMT Certification?

[Asysin2leads]

The problem with your scenario is that if the first officer does go down and there is active shooting, in the hot zone is not the place to begin any kind of treatment. The best treatment that could be provided would be to remove the officer from the situation. That is a scenario that the SWAT team should be trained to deal with, and not one that requires any kind of medical intervention in the hot zone. As for your extended standby situation and keeping the team healthy and alert, this is something that again should be being done outside of the hot zone. There's really a minimal need, if any ever for a medic to be in the hot zone. The injured need extraction prior to treatment, not the other way around. Trying to treat while in the hot zone only adds to the potential for more injured responders. Extract and then begin treatment. That's the safest way to get out of the situation with the minimum number of injured/dead. Keep in mind that these are the opinions of just your normal street medic that works in a busy inner city. I've had the opportunity to do police standby's for situations similar, and not once has it been mentioned or asked that a paramedic enter the hot zone. And this includes responses to the officer down (one of which was killed in the line of duty).

As my above posts have already stated, I wholeheartedly agree. The idea that a paramedic can swoop in and snatch some from the jaws of death is a romantic one, but its not backed by medical science. Someone with a strong back, quick legs, and balls of steel is a much preferable choice to perform a rescue in a hot zone. Some of our ESU officers are trained as paramedics and are allowed to do limited ALS interventions in a tactical situation. This program was not met with much resistance, because 1. They'd only be doing it in a tactical situation, 2. The need for it would be very rare, and 3. In these rare situations, someone who is a trained tactical officer with a paramedic cert will do far better than a trained paramedic with a crash course in tactical situations.

[Bulldogmedic]

I agree that a medic with just a quick class does not need to be in the middle of the hot zone. That is why not only are we going to contoms we train with the team at every one of there trainings. I think that a medic can do a lot of good in the hot zone. Starting treatment there will shave time off of an officer possibly going hypoxic for so long if we can control the airway right there. As far as the long standoffs we are going to be right in the command post observing the team and making sure they are staying warm or cool and hydrated. We will already know quite a bit about each of the officers medical history and any special needs that might arise from that. We will know if they are on meds or have any allergies. I just think you are looking at one side and not considering the pros of the medic. I know from all my experience that a medic is not going to swoop in and snatch one from the jaws of death(very often anyway). I do think that if an officer was to go down that we would be right there to keep him from those jaws. Stay safe.

[Dustdevil]

IStarting treatment there will shave time off of an officer possibly going hypoxic for so long if we can control the airway right there.

Screw the officers. They knew the job was tough when they took it.

The medics are needed for all the innocent civilians that are frequently injured and killed by these jack booted Nazis, as well as all those people they were supposedly there to "rescue," but got killed instead.

[Bulldogmedic]

It sounds to me like you have a lot bigger issues with swat teams then whether or not medics need to be there. I am not sure why but hey everyone has an opinion. I hope you stay safe in Iraq and hope you all come home soon.

[medic001918]

I still don't agree with the idea of having a medic performing care regardless of training in the hot zone. You talk about having an airway controlled early in the case of an event, but how well is the airway being controlled when that patient is being extricated from the hot zone? and what's better, delaying extrication to try to perform in the hot zone? Or simply removing the patient and trying to remove the patient from the environment? In my experience it's better to remove the patient then begin treatment.

While knowing all of the officers medical history and medications is great, that's not too impossible of an issue to overcome. Each officer carries an information sheet somewhere on their body that the officer in charge can relay the location of that information to any responding units. And if the officer is in that bad of shape, they'll be treated as "unknown meds, history and allergies," just as they would if you respnded to any other call with limited information.

I'm still going with the fact that a tactical medic has little to no real benefit in a life fire situation. Should there be medics on stand by? Yes. Should they be in the hot zone trying to perform patient care? Absolutely not. The only thing that's going to lead to is having two patients instead of one since your situational awareness is going to be decreased trying to focus on patient care. You're not going to be looking at this guys airway and still be aware of who's aroud you doing what. The best means of safety for this patient is rapid egress from the hot zone for stabilization.

Given your belief that paramedics should be part of a swat entry team so that care can be initiated early in the event of injury, does that mean that a paramedic who's a firefighter should be inside of a burning building or a hazardous environment (again in the hot zone) to initiate care to the sick or injured? Standard practice is to remove the victim from the danger zone and bring them to a safe point prior to initating care. Maybe we could actually take something from that protocol that is widely used and accepted.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Bulldogmedic]

I can see your point of view and think you have some good points. I also think that a medic is a great thing for a team. Think about this idea a team makes an entry an officer is hit do you really think with all the fire that the rest of the team is going to lay down is not going to neutralize the shooter. The officers are trained to circle and defend the injured officer and the medic. We can take care of them and when it is safe to move we will then take them to a safe zone for a responding unit. Now the same scenario the only medics are sitting 2 blocks away from the scene. When the officer is hit the team must call for that truck and wait for them to get to the safe zone all the while the injured officer is bleeding or not breathing. While they are doing this they are still trying to neutralize the shooter but they are not as focused because they have an injured officer that no one is caring for. Which case do you think they would be able to more effectively respond to the shooter?

[Dustdevil]

Think about this idea a team makes an entry an officer is hit do you really think with all the fire that the rest of the team is going to lay down is not going to neutralize the shooter.

Did you sleep through Waco?

I thought about your idea.

Too bad the ATF never thought about that idea.

If your idea of superior firepower was even minimally valid, Vietnam wouldn't have lasted eighteen years.