Vol. EMS service for Schools???

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

I agree with that.

What are they giving you in the way of field experience and internship? Is it seriously inadequate, or do you just want more?

I definitely believe that a medic school should provide you with hundreds, if not thousands of hours of field experience before cutting you loose to practise. But I can't envision many campus situations where it would be feasible to create that experience within the campus environment. College students just don't get hurt or sick often enough to keep an ambulance or first responder squad busy. Certainly not enough for a whole class full of students to get any of the action. Just seems like you'd spend hundreds of hours sitting around waiting for the alarm that never comes, with only one or two of your students ever actually responding to anything. And administration would have to be crazy to shell out thousands of dollars to provide something they already get for free from experienced, full-time providers. Again, I just don't see how this thing could ever be justified on any level whatsoever on any campus.

For the most part accurate, just situational variant on the circumstance.

[Eydawn]

Last year there was one asthma attack, one traumatic seizure, and one severe knee injury related to the tennis courts. The asthma attack was me, the traumatic injury was someone in my tae kwon do class and the tennis courts, I have no idea...

The 6 this year have been a severe illness, a fall, 3 alcohol related runs, and not sure on the last one.

No idea how many Western's gotten.

Wendy

NREMT-B

CO EMT-B

MI EMT-B

[fireflymedic]

There was an article some time ago (several years I believe like '02 or '03) in JEMS regarding this very topic. It was a school which had a similar set up to what you are proposing and it received a very positive response from both the public (as it significantly freed up county ambulances) and also the school. The school featured was somewhere in Kansas. I went to a school that despite the incredible fire/ems/police program they had there did not feature this. However, several of us did volunteer with the local rescue squad while going through school to get the experience and decide if this was what we really wanted to do. It also allowed for first responders to see if they wanted to further their education in the EMS world or pursue something else. My school would have greatly benefited from having a campus based EMS service especially for athletic events or on the dreaded weekends (ie lots of drinking involved). The local service was often overloaded with calls and sometimes an ambulance would have to be called all the way from the other end of the county to respond, often taking nearly half an hour.

Dust, I greatly respect your credentials and experience, however, I am troubled by the negative view you do have of basics and those of a lower level in general. Remember, we all had to start somewhere. There was a time when you didn't know anything as well, and someone had to teach you. I think the basic level is a great place for people to get started (though I think the addition of IV skills should be added to the curriculum nationwide to allow for fluid boluses, admin of D 50, and first round cardiac drugs). I feel basic should actually be a mix between the current basic and intermediate level. Several states are progressing this direction, and a few have even fazed out the basic level entirely (ie Tenn and Georgia-must be IV cert or intermediate to work on an ambulance). I had a vast range of experiences in EMS before deciding to pursue the career full time. I believe all contributed to strong assessment skills and will make me a better medic for it. It all falls back to BLS before ALS. If all the fancy toys fail, you can still keep a person alive using BLS methods. Are they superior? Not by any means, but only be as aggressive as you need to be. The majority of runs you go on can be managed BLS anyway and really don't require a medic. It is the "really big and bad ones" that will and in that case, they are usually flown out. As far as requiring a degree in the field, sure I'm all for it, if it actually meant something. But as was the case for me, I took a bunch of classes not even remotely pertaining to EMS or Fire to get a degree which I will never use again. A & P, bio, english and math, all very applicable and helpful though. Perhaps have a "focused" degree option? I think that would be a better resolution that just a general degree from a college that says you took a bunch of worthless classes and just happened to get your certification or license in the process. Did you ever think that perhaps the average burnout rate in our profession is 5 years because we pressure newcomers straight into being a medic and they really don't have time to see if this is what they want to do? Even as basics, the required 10 hours of ride time is hardly enough to know (my school required an additional 150 hours as a basic before testing-almost half of my class quit after that realizing this is not what they thought it was). I think bringing in better professionals who have better training (ie more clinical and ride time) would be of benefit rather than a piece of paper. Just a thought to think about Dust.

[Dustdevil]

Dust, I greatly respect your credentials and experience, however, I am troubled by the negative view you do have of basics and those of a lower level in general.

At the risk of repeating myself all over again, WTF are you talking about?

Nowhere in this entire topic did I ever make any such statement. We seem to have a real reading comprehension problem on this board. :?

[JPINFV]

At the risk of highjacking this thread...

There was a time when you didn't know anything as well, and someone had to teach you. I think the basic level is a great place for people to get started (though I think the addition of IV skills should be added to the curriculum nationwide to allow for fluid boluses, admin of D 50, and first round cardiac drugs).

Of course enough A&P, pharm, and cell biology should also be added so that we actually understand what the frack those drugs do, right? Hell, I don't even think we went over why you need oxygen in my basic class. I know that it isn't in my basic text book. It honestly might not be a bad idea to remove oxygen from the basic's scope of practice.

Or do you believe that just knowing how and when to push a drug is enough?

[Dustdevil]

Oh, I think basics should get all those drugs too!

So long as their school is at least two years long. :wink:

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

At the risk of repeating myself all over again, WTF are you talking about?

Nowhere in this entire topic did I ever make any such statement. We seem to have a real reading comprehension problem on this board. :?

Do you say that directly, no. You do, however give that general impression when many of your posts are read.

Dont get me wrong, I get it, but you and I have argued enough for me to see through to your full opinion.

[Dustdevil]

You're wrong, and I am disappointed in you.

As well as offended.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

You're wrong, and I am disappointed in you.

As well as offended.

Maybe you dont understand what im saying.

I understand your views, because we have argued them constantly.

To some others, i can see how they would get that particular opinion, but what, and how you post.

If that offends you, you'll live. Just keep on posting, were happy to have ya here, every house needs a crotchety old man

[Charlie 3]

Because I was envisioning a first responder organisation, not a transporting ambulance service. I have never heard of a campus with their own transporting ambulance, so that didn't even cross my mind. It has nothing to do with the quality of care, level of care, paid vs. volunteer, or age of the participants. Remember, I am one of the few here who speaks out against age limits for medics. It's all about feasibility. And from a feasibility standpoint, the whole campus EMS concept just doesn't seem to be viable from any point of view. And I don't appreciate people putting words into my mouth that I never said.

www.ncemsf.org ... National Collegiate EMS foundation... about 100 organizations that disagree with you.

I volunteer for Brown U. EMS. We have 1 transporting 24/365 ALS ambulance, and are having a new, second ambulance delivered in June. We have 5 paid full time supervisors, a handful of per diem supervisors, and about 130 volunteers. Of those volunteers, a little over half are licensed EMTs, the rest are ride alongs. The typical duty crew consists of the supervisor, a medic or cardiac (let's not get into that debate ), at least one EMT, and two ride alongs. My duty crew, however, is a medic supervisor, a student cardiac, and two EMTs, so it varies.

Yes, we are in an urban area, so it is not that long until the "real EMS" gets here. Unless you know anything about the Providence EMS system, in which case you know that the PFD has 6 rescues doing 30,000 calls a year, and asks for mutual aid at least 9 times a day. Furthermore, depending on the crew that you get, and the time in their shift you call, you may get extremely sub-par service.

As far as call volume goes, we do about 800 a year. It's usually enough to keep me happy, although I wish PFD would let us do mutual aid... we're already here. Unions *grumbles*. About 23% of our calls are alcohol or drug related. We have an excellent average response time, and I can say with confidence that we provide good care. It's a great training program: on BLS calls, the supervisor drives, and the more experienced EMTs either tech the call or allow the less experienced EMTs to tech it, jumping in when necessary.