new personnel

[paramedicmike]

If the person in question, knows what s/he is doing, acts appropriately, isn't an arrogant know it all, doesn't cop an attitude, is confident in his/her skills, asks appropriate questions, admits to not knowing something then asks so as not to have to revist the issue later then fine.

If the person in question has one or none of the above qualities/traits then they deserve everything they get.

Yes, be fair. Don't pick on the person just to pick. Don't get personal and don't attack a person on that level. But it is our responsibility as the senior staff to make sure the newbie is up to snuff. This isn't a game and it's not a hobby. We have just enough in our toybox to cause some serious damage (if we don't wind up killing someone). And if that person fvcks up then not only is it his/her tail on the line, but the partner and the organization. It's our job to get this person into shape if s/he's not there already.

I've seen it before. In fact, it's going on right now at my full time gig. People want to hand hold a new hire who's a pathological liar and an extremely bad medic. Do you want someone like this showing up to take care of you or your family? I live in my local and damned if I'm going to let this bonehead take care of me.

Be fair but be hard if needed. Weed them out. The EMT mills don't do anything to prepare people. That's up to us.

And if people don't like it, well, then don't work in the industry.

-be safe.

[JakeEMTP]

Marty and Mike, I agree with both of you.

Being hard on someone just because you feel like it is your right is inappropriate. However, as Marty stated, questioning of the newbie to be sure he knows what their doing is acceptable. Both of you state quite accurately, that we as providers have many things on the ambulance that can kill people if not used correctly. That is the job of the senior medic, to make sure the FNG knows and preforms the interventions correctly.

Mike I agree, some people who come into the service with the know it all attitude deserve to be taken down a peg or two. Hopefully most new medics will not exhibit the dreaded Paragod attitude. Remember some of the new medics have been to college for 2 yrs minimum before entering the service. These folks are not idiots. According to the State they reside in and the beloved NR they are licensed/certified Paramedics the same as you. They may be still wet behind the ears as far as field work, but hopefully they have a clue. The Medical director thought so.

[paramedicmike]

So if someone comes into a service and I have to be hard on him because he's an idiot that automatically makes me a paragod?

Not trying to be argumentative.

I'll also disagree with the notion that they're not idiots. Any new person is an idiot until proven otherwise. Just because they've gone through two years of college and managed to BS their way through an interview doesn't mean anything other than they can successfully BS their way through an interview.

I've done six years of college and some people still say I'm an idiot.

-be safe.

[Ridryder 911]

There is definitely a difference between "picking on someone, degrading them" and being firm on them. I have never condoned "hazing" or being cruel.

I really don't care if they have a PhD, Associate Degree, or have been through a90 day Paramedic course (of course personally, I favor collegiate levels).. the main point is that they have the adequate knowledge and skills associated with their license level.

Again, it goes back to the fundamentals of education. The two personalities that are commonly misguided are the "I know it already" and the "I don't know what to do... show me" attitudes. No one realistically assumes that any one person knows what to doon everything, when entering a new job, but should have at least the fundamentals down. Discuss, situations and ask questions with specific points.

The best way to burn one's bridge is to be cocky.. and arrogant, especially when new. Having some confidence is fine, but there is a fine line from arrogance and confident. Being new in the field, it is better to observe and become involved and participate as a team. Confidence can only be achieved after experiences.

The other "please show me" attitude is fine for a while, but really grates on senior members nerves, when most of the questions are common knowledge or materials covered in the curriculum or policies. Have you thoroughly read them?.

Yes, studying, reading, and on down time really familiar yourself with the rig, jump kit, and studying the map makes other crew members aware that you are participating on your part.

I am sure most medics are never really trying to force anyone out... but, as professionals, we have an obligation to the patient, the system - profession, and to ourselves that only the better ones will be there to provide care. Unfortunately, we have failed to often, and we can see what happened.

R/r 911

[JakeEMTP]

So if someone comes into a service and I have to be hard on him because he's an idiot that automatically makes me a paragod?

-be safe.

Not at all Mike. I guess I wasn't clear as to what I meant. If a newbie comes into the service with the Paragod attitude, they need to be taken down a notch or two. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[awing06]

Pardon me, but Im new in the field, and 20 hours of clinical with 20 patient contacts dosent really give you much help. Its nice to have people around who are willing to help you, but it sounds like a lot of the people posting here have trouble remembering that they were new once too. You dont have to hold my hand, but if theres something I havent seen before or dont understand you can bet that Ill ask a question, and if some jerk off who thinks hes better than me calls me an idiot, then theyre the ones who dont need to be in the field, not me... or any other newbie for that matter.

[Star09]

I think it's all in how it's done. For those who come into a service with a "know-it-all" attitude, yeah, they probably do need to be shot down and brought back to reality. However, I'm new, and I know I have a lot to learn, so my coworkers are patient with me and each one has done a great job of trying to pass on their know how.

I lived with three of my coworkers. One would quiz me on signs, symptoms and treatments while cleaning the ambulance after a call, another would run scenarios with me whenever I asked and the other just finished taking me through an extensive driving course with the ambulance. They've all done a great job. Instead of making me feel insecure about what I don't know they made me more confident in what I do know while still teaching me. I've been extremely fortunate in my service.

[weasel 108]

What I had said under the other topic " Do you work with an EMT or a driver" fits in with this topic.

Not to long ago we had a student EMT come and do a ride along on the medic unit I was working on. (in my opinion he should have been placed on a BLS truck 1st). Anyway,My medic and I had finished our truck check(along with cleaning and decon),and had come into the day room to read the paper. Our chief came in and asked me if I had met this student. I said "what student ?" I did not know we had one running with us that day. Next he proceeded to grill me and ask why I was not showing him the equipment and how to use it. Well 1st the student was watching tv ,napping in chair with his soda :shock: ,2nd he came in the same time I did (06;00hrs) and did not once come and help us or ask us to show him the equipment. 3rd I'm probably wrong on this,but I'm already an EMT (and still educating myself),I am already working and have been for 12 yrs in EMS. he is the student ( he had later said to me that he wants to make this a career :? ). I told the chief that the student should just ask me for help. Well the student did and I proceeded to give him an education on the equipment and the operations of said equipment.I also went over his text book with him. I will always help an EMT student with his studies,and the new EMT with learning the trucks if I'm asked by them.

When I first became an EMT. I did not dare go in the dayroom and watch TV . I was constantly drilled and re drilled on assessments ,treatments,equipment usage,A&P,etc. I always asked loads of questions to my preceptors,and was never shot for asking (unless it was stupid,then I was slapped in the back of the head ).

My opinion :roll: is that there are a few newbies that think the world owes them.They know everything and they do not need to learn anymore.

[Ridryder 911]

So many people think because they attended a little couple hundred hour course that even gives them a right to start challenging some reasons of EMS ? I routinely have at least 200 clock hours of CEU's every 2 years... and so?..

Yes, I do remember what it was like when I started out... I was the youngest of them all, and the only one that was not a Vietnam Corpsman. When I ran my first trauma call and was enthused (spazzing) that it was an open femur fxr! My partner informed that "it will be okay... his guts was not hanging out his arse"... yes, it definitely knocked me down a few notches.

I was continuously quizzed daily on pharmacology, ECG's, pathophysiology- (we had to assist on autopsies! ) The main thing was "how to use your brain"... Common sense was highly encouraged... the need to think! .. Actually prepare yourself for the worst call each time the tone would go off... improvise and adapt when you did not have a "certain piece of equipment".

Yes again, I remember when I started out... between 6 members/ per crew; they ran off 30 guys in one year. Why?.. Because they felt like they were idiots.. and yes, they were. My boss, emphasized, you have to "be ahead in the game" and "think one step ahead" each time. Although, I was a wet nosed kid of a ripe age of 17, I was fortunate to have such mentors. These older guys (a whopping ripe age of 25 -32) knew they were pioneers of EMS, and frequently stated it. They knew as well, that if allowance of sub-standard people were to ever get in, it would be hell to get them out.... unfortunately they were correct, look at us now.

Back then, I was not even allowed to wear any "Star-of-Life" or even a Registry patch, until I paid my dues.. which was at least 6 months or "whenever the crew/FTO" believed I had met their standards. This meant constant studying, being able to give a rapid answer to any EMS questions, and justifying any and all of my treatment be it right or wrong.

Now, when I treat or do not treat, I know medically, I have a specific reason, with that I know the physiological consequences and occurrences that is happening to that patient.

Believe it or not, there are some of in EMS take this business pretty damn serious. We have worked hard to try to maintain quality control on whom, and what take care of our patients. Yes, it has been hard and seems to get harder every day instead of easier, in which it really should be going. Standard of care seems to be diluting downward as well as the desire to be good in the profession, not for thyself, but to actually deliver good patient care.

Be safe,

R/r 911

[cosgrojo]

Deal with it... tired of coddling and trying to nurturing newbies. Tried it and never seen it work as of yet !

Which professor do you remember the most... the one that was easy, sweet, laid back or the one that was a hard-arss, and made you work for that A+?....

R/r 911

Well then I suggest that you are not doing it right, or you do not have the necessary patience and/or psychological makeup to train young, insecure providers who mask their insecurities with inappropriate bravado.

Personally I have seen it work dozens of times. Many young people who have been my partners came in without the knowledge or skills to survive. Together with other quality employees, we have successfully turned out many quality providers that may have not made it with another approach. The point is that everyone learns differently, and sometimes you need to personalize how you approach a new person. If you don't want to do it... there is nothing wrong with it, but don't say it can't work because you were unable to accomplish it. I have recently lost two partners who came into my shift without much experience or understanding. They leave me now for better shifts or new job opportunities. As they leave I watch their progress, and feel no little amount of pride knowing that I had at least something to do with their development. Nothing else I have ever done in EMS has made me feel better. And as sad as I am to lose some very good partners and some excellent providers, I look forward to helping out a new batch of people that need a little guidance.

And on your last point, I tend to remember the professors that took time to understand my view point and respect my views "irregardless" of whether they agreed with me or not. Professors who challenged my notions and ideas but also had a sense of respect for the students, AND made them work hard for that A+... that's who I liked. Not just a hard arse for the sake of being a hard arse.