Abusing the system, pointing out the obvious, am I a racist?

[Michael]

First off stop internalizing about something you cannot control

[snip]

If one person couldn't pay then the whole community would band together and pay the doctor in some fashion - sounds like the early version of medicaid or public assistance.

You're surely right about the first point.

As to the second, some people find a difference between funds that are donated and those that are coerced from the supplier.

Say, who'd like to PM me a lesson on how to quote multiple times and intersperse comments between the quotes? Looks so nifty when I see y'all doing it. But maybe that's ALS.

[Ridryder 911]

I am sure not getting upset or having an apathetic attitude maybe great, but most of you are the future generation... for me it wont be too bad.. there still be money. If you are under 38 there won't be... but hey... thanks for the piggy bank.

Seriously, how long do you think this can continue ?... Will things change.... yes, they have to, there is no more m-o-n-e-y.. Will this afect you ?... damn straight.. right now, medicaid reimburses ER's approximately <25% .. some even have a capped rate of $25.00 so how much profit do you think EMS will make .... not upset yet?...hmm like to make more money than those on assistance? Or are you satisfied for being an EMT and making less than those guys that makes whoppers? .. or at least have insurance and medical for your family?..

Re-modification begins with the first step.. you bet, I attend and support legislative changes. Do you think EMS suddenly appeared as well.. apathy only harms a community.

Be safe,

R/r 911

[FishHawk]

No you are not a racist. You are pointing out a situation that is more prevalent in certain groups of people. It is amazing that in this country we are guaranteed a 12th grade education at the taxpayers expense but because certain values and standards are not instilled in our children that certain groups have higher (very significantly higher) rates of drop out, illiteracy, unemployment, reliance on social services etc.

There are many people who overcome this situation and have good values instilled by their parents, guardians etc. There are also many people who overcome simply because they choose not to perpetuate that life. Teach your children values and mores, be a positive role model for your children. Until this happens and we change the entire thought process of a broad class of people things will continue this way.

I believe there is no excuse for 99% of the people you are describing. If there are no jobs move to where there are. If you think your schools are substandard move to another school district. Have pride in yourself!

Thanks for bringing this up and not worrying about being PC. Things are getting out of hand with our social programs, everyone is afraid of offending someone. Make individuals for their decisions, not society.

End of Rant.

[EMS49393]

Oh my goodness, what perfect timing for me to read this post. I don't think you're a racist because I came from a large, mostly african-american city. However, after moving to this crappy little town in the midwest, I now see that the only reason most of the system abusers I had there were african-american was because that's what lived in that city. Here it's predominately Caucasian. We have the same clients I had in the big city, except they're white people. For instance, I ran four calls (including a long distance psych transfer) last shift. Four calls, five patients total. All five were drunk, all but one wanted to kill themselves. They were all on medicaid and all could afford their cigarettes and liquor, of course. On a daily basis I transport people that intentionally harm themselves, either with long term smoking, alcoholism, or laziness. Most of the time these people walk better then I do, get around easier then I do and they're on public assistance for their "disability." No one ever has a substantial medical history other then psychiatric problems, and most of them regularly admit to being "owed" something for the tragedies they have gone through.

Now, besides really ticking me off, this problem goes much deeper then just tying up one ambulance. We have limited EMS in this town, primarily because it's a financial killer for the hospitals that run the services. Supply prices are high, gas prices are higher, and reimbursement is probably the lowest in the medical field. We may have 6 ambulances covering this county, and 5-6 of them on calls that are abusers that either don't need medical attention or can go by other means to a PCP or urgent care. We have just a couple of ERs in this little town. All of them are backed up several hours in triaging emergencies alone, and we bring in people that just need to sleep off their drunk, or tell us they're suicidal because they have Idontwanttogotojailitis. We don't have room for the patients that truly need medical help because the system is clogged with abusers.

So what can be done? Well, after many, many years in this field, I have my solution and I may just run for president. Cut them off. Cut all their funding off. Show up in the ambulance and tell them it's not an emergency, but we'll taxi you to the ER if you can pay the 800 dollar bill up front. Let them show up to the ER and have them demand partial or full payment up front for frivolous garbage. Throw them out in the river and see how many make it back to shore. Sink or swim. I might sound mean, and hard, but I'm tired of these people, and tired of working my butt off for crummy pay, losing all this money in taxes only to see people in better condition then I am take advantage of all the tax money I pay into the system. They don't want to work to improve themselves, why should we care whether they drink themselves into an early grave or not.

"Well if that's your attitude, maybe you should get out of EMS." It's not that I don't care at all. I care very deeply about doing the best I can for people that can't help themselves, that really need help. I just find it hard to care anymore for people that are honestly wasting our oxygen. Since that's really all that seems to be around anymore, in any town or city, perhaps I should return back to school and become an accountant.

Rant off, I now return you to your regularly scheduled post.

[stridor]

Tell you what THbarnes, I will take your semi-sick, welfare cases, and do 911 for a while and you come up here to Philly and do my wealthy, took good care of themselves, whining, complaining, fat@ssed, can't walk but live on the third floor, renal cases. Just do your d@mn job.

[EMS49393]

Tell you what THbarnes, I will take your semi-sick, welfare cases, and do 911 for a while and you come up here to Philly and do my wealthy, took good care of themselves, whining, complaining, fat@ssed, can't walk but live on the third floor, renal cases. Just do your d@mn job.

Don't be hating on the people doing 911 because you're doing transfers. Obviously you enjoy paying taxes that go to take care of the people we're talking about. I suggest you re-read THbarnes post. It brought up very valid points about how we financially take care of these people and they can't go the extra length to even get their prescriptions filled. Our tax money could go to more useful ventures, just as he said. I'd personally like to see a cure for cancer, but the more money we waste on people that don't care to do anything but drink their 40's and smoke their chronic, the less we have for taking care of that mother of four dying of breast cancer.

Just for you information before you bust my butt, I did transfers, including the "renal roundup" for years before getting my hospital based job. My current service does it all. Personally I'd rather run transfers, taking grandma back to the nursing home, then 911 here, and that's because the 911 calls are 90% BS and I know granny really needs the ride.

[medik8]

Tell you what THbarnes, I will take your semi-sick, welfare cases, and do 911 for a while and you come up here to Philly and do my wealthy, took good care of themselves, whining, complaining, fat@ssed, can't walk but live on the third floor, renal cases. Just do your d@mn job.

Aww geez....guys...let's not start the pissing matches about who works harder or who truly works EMS or the like. We all work hard for our money and we all deal with the BS calls, as well as the good ones. It's just the way this business is. It doesn't take long to figure that out. Attacking each other because of our frustrations doesn't solve anything...it just sets us back, yet again, because we, for some reason, love to devour our own. Who does what has nothing to do with the problem at hand. Let's just keep this thing on topic...OK?

*Listen to me....I'm not even a mod....* LMFAO!!!!!

xoxoxo

Luv, :wink:

8

[stridor]

Obviously you enjoy paying taxes that go to take care of the people we're talking about. I suggest you re-read THbarnes post.

I could tell you all aabout how medicare pays for the folks who are too fat to walk to ride an ambulance to the dentist, the sleep disorder clinic, the dialysis clinic etc. if that makes you feel any better. The reality is that there is waste, fraud and abuse in every level of this industry and you will go nucking futs trying to make any sense of it. Screw it, just take the f**kers to the doctor, dentist, hospital, bar, wherever they want to go and collect your paycheck. You get paid one way or the other, you would have to pay the tax one way or the other, and they will get where they got to go one way or the other, let somebody else break their head over it.

[MedicNorth]

The world is full of people who take advantage of the system. That does not mean that the system is flawed - it means that our society and human nature are. If the question is "what can we do about it?", the answer is quite clear. Nothing!

The social safety net is there for people who deserve it. Tightening it up will simply squeeze out those who need and deserve the services. The twelve children of the fat, lazy, and opportunistic mother are not to blame - they still deserve to be treated with skill and dignity. Where do you draw the line to decide who is worthy?

Once you start drawing lines in the sand you will find that nobody is happy with where it is, and the discussion will still be there, and just as acrid. Who do we deny treatment to? Who do we deny transport to?

Yes, it upsets me still to know there are parasites in our system. It is a human nature issue, not a racial one.

[stridor]

The world is full of people who take advantage of the system. That does not mean that the system is flawed - it means that our society and human nature are. If the question is "what can we do about it?", the answer is quite clear. Nothing!

The social safety net is there for people who deserve it. Tightening it up will simply squeeze out those who need and deserve the services. The twelve children of the fat, lazy, and opportunistic mother are not to blame - they still deserve to be treated with skill and dignity. Where do you draw the line to decide who is worthy?

Once you start drawing lines in the sand you will find that nobody is happy with where it is, and the discussion will still be there, and just as acrid. Who do we deny treatment to? Who do we deny transport to?

Yes, it upsets me still to know there are parasites in our system. It is a human nature issue, not a racial one.

I never commented on the racial issue so I will now, we are all equally worthless, every race has people who abuse the system;

and yes, the system is flawed. From the doc's that sign a medical neccessity form knowing they are full of $hit to the system that makes them so desperate to get a patient out of the hospital that they will commit medicare fraud, all the way down to the emt's who transport and write false narratives so that the ambulance company can be paid for the trip. I don't draw any lines, you call I haul, never said any different if you will reread my posts. Never said anything needed to change, just said I don't like it. Treated with skill and dignity? for what? There isn't anything that falls within my scope of practice to treat, I'm not a personal trainer, nephrologist, geriatric specialist, transplant surgeon, undertaker (since I transport dead folks too) or any of the myriad of other specialists my patients might need. I just transport, and while I do judge just like we all do, I keep the verdict to myself. And my final comment about letting someone else break their head about it and more than anything else, do your damn job, that would be my version of the answer to your question, "What can we do about it."