PCP's calling themselves paramedics....

[Neesie]

Ok, I figured I would get such a response. I mostly was trying to vent but to be fair, I did ask if it was just me or if anyone else felt the same way. Looks like it is pretty much just me! lol

First off, Vs-eh?, yes, I am referring to my provincial EMT not the US EMT-B. My PCP course is a CMA approved course. The extra training I have and as well as the province that I work in allows me to initiate IV's, insert combi tubes and LMA's as well as drugs that I have been educated on. The thing that bothers me most is that I feel that SOME PCP's are wrongfully persuading the public to believe that we are capable of doing the same skills as an ACP or CCP can. When asked, I inform whoever is asking that yes, I have the first level of paramedicine BUT I am by no means at the level of paramedic that they believe a paramedic is. I explain the differences (because that is part of our job isn't it...to help educate the public as well???) to the best of my ability. And speaking of doing things to the best of my ability, I always do my job to the best of my ability. I do everything possible that I can for my patient.

I agree with Phil that yes, a paramedic does define what we do better than a technician does. But, how many of the public look that up in the dictionary? Probably not very many. I have had to deal with this a lot at work. Our service is a BLS only service. Many patients ask what the difference is and are concerned if they find out (whether it is us or someone else that explains it to them) what the difference is. They automatically think they need a "Paramedic" on board incase something happens. They don't realize that yes, we can do many of the things that a full fledged medic can do. But what's worse is the confidence lost when they find out you aren't really what you say you are. That is why it always bothers me when someone calls themself something they aren't.

Anyway, that is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

[vs-eh?]

The extra training I have and as well as the province that I work in allows me to initiate IV's, insert combi tubes and LMA's as well as drugs that I have been educated on.

The irony is that you probably have a greater scope of practice than most PCP's in the country and certainly in Ontario...

Many patients ask what the difference is and are concerned if they find out (whether it is us or someone else that explains it to them) what the difference is. They automatically think they need a "Paramedic" on board incase something happens. They don't realize that yes, we can do many of the things that a full fledged medic can do. But what's worse is the confidence lost when they find out you aren't really what you say you are. That is why it always bothers me when someone calls themself something they aren't.

Many patients ask this? I can probably count on one hand how many patients have asked me this. The main question I get are how long is the education...I tell them 2 years for the entry level, another year for the next level, and another year for the next. Then they are like "Oh, wow!"...We have bars on our epaulets that show your paramedic "level". It is subtle, and I don't think I have ever heard anyone ask, why one person has 3 bars and other has 1. You have patients that get disappointed when the find out you aren't a "full fledged" paramedic? And the PATIENT looses confidence when you "aren't really what you say you are"? You must work in the most educated and critical community with regard to EMS if you often run into patients like this...Hospital staff sure, I can see them asking if you are an ACP/CCP if they need that kind of intervention on a transfer or something. But normal 911 calls? Come on...

[Dustdevil]

The thing that bothers me most is that I feel that SOME PCP's are wrongfully persuading the public to believe that we are capable of doing the same skills as an ACP or CCP can.

That is definitely a problem. I agree with you on that point. I would be very disappointed in anybody doing that.

However, it is pretty darn common here in the US. Lots of EMT's run around telling the public that they are a paramedic. Heck, we have wannabe's here on this board that are unexperienced and/or unemployed basics who try to thrill us with their tales of heroism and ALS skills, so you know they are bullshitting the people who don't know anything about EMS too.

But, as much as I am keenly aware of the differences between an ACP and a PCP (or an EMT and a Paramedic), I agree with the conventional wisdom in Canada which believes that the greater good is served by identifying all pre-hospital EMS care providers as a single group with a single, easily recognisable and understandable moniker. Sure, they are different levels of providers, just as there are also different levels of physicians and nurses and respiratory therapists. But all of those professions have also recognised and embraced the benefits of representation under one umbrella. We should too.

Of course, in the US at least, the first step is to make EMT's actually EARN that identification, as has been done in Canada.

[vs-eh?]

The thing that bothers me most is that I feel that SOME PCP's are wrongfully persuading the public to believe that we are capable of doing the same skills as an ACP or CCP can.

Yes, if that was the point of this thread, then ya. I can see the issue then...

LOL, I'm just thinking...

So you go to a call for a 25 year old asthmatic, mild SOB, forget her puffers. For the sake of argument we'll say this is a benign call, never been hospitalized, never been intubated, consistent with previous asthma in all respects, not even that bad, just doesn't have her salbutamol. You give her 5.0mg of salbutamol (which is a PCP drug in Ontario), calm her down, and boom SOB resolved.

Pt. -"Thank you kind Nessie", "Oh, by the way, what level of paramedic are you?"

Nessie - "I'm a PCP"

Pt. - "A PCP!!!!! MY GOD, THEY SENT ME A PCP CREW! I WAS UNAWARE, I WAS UNAWARE! IT SAYS PARAMEDIC THERE, I WANTED AN ACP OR CCP! OH GOODNESS GRACIOUS, I'M STARTING TO GET SHORT OF BREATH AGAIN, AND OH THE CHEST PAIN! HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TREAT THAT YOU PRIMARY CARE PARAMEDIC YOU! WHAT IF I NEED TO BE INTUBATED!!!! MERCY ME.....*patient faints*

NOW YOUR SCREWED CAUSE YOU ARE JUST A PCP!

LOL.... :roll:

[MedicMal]

Yes, if that was the point of this thread, then ya. I can see the issue then...

LOL, I'm just thinking...

So you go to a call for a 25 year old asthmatic, mild SOB, forget her puffers. For the sake of argument we'll say this is a benign call, never been hospitalized, never been intubated, consistent with previous asthma in all respects, not even that bad, just doesn't have her salbutamol. You give her 5.0mg of salbutamol (which is a PCP drug in Ontario), calm her down, and boom SOB resolved.

Pt. -"Thank you kind Nessie", "Oh, by the way, what level of paramedic are you?"

Nessie - "I'm a PCP"

Pt. - "A PCP!!!!! MY GOD, THEY SENT ME A PCP CREW! I WAS UNAWARE, I WAS UNAWARE! IT SAYS PARAMEDIC THERE, I WANTED AN ACP OR CCP! OH GOODNESS GRACIOUS, I'M STARTING TO GET SHORT OF BREATH AGAIN, AND OH THE CHEST PAIN! HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TREAT THAT YOU PRIMARY CARE PARAMEDIC YOU! WHAT IF I NEED TO BE INTUBATED!!!! MERCY ME.....*patient faints*

NOW YOUR SCREWED CAUSE YOU ARE JUST A PCP!

LOL.... :roll:

:laughing3: :laughing6:

[Neesie]

Yes, that was my point. The fact that people are giving a false impression of what they really are.

VS, I have to assume that you are trying to be funny with your little scenerio. When I stated that I have had many people ask the differences, I didn't mean on an emerg call, although it has happened. Most of the time it has been on a transfer when you have a prolonged time to talk with your patient. We have transfers up to 3-4 hours long. (When we have to take the patient to another hospital in another city) We have 2 services that are within half an hour from us that employ ACP's. I do believe at times that is why we are asked these questions. There are times that we are too busy with emerg calls or already have a couple units in another city and aren't able to take another one. We ask these services to come transport these patients for us and sometimes they have the ACP's on car. The patients find out that way as well, so then the questions arise and we are back at step one again.

[AZCEP]

My views are spun from my experiences in the US, so ignore accordingly.

I have never really cared, one way or the other about what other providers decide to call themselves. If someone identifies themself as an EMT, then that is what I expect them to know. If someone decides to tell me that they are a paramedic, then that is what I expect from them. There have been more times that someone decides to fluff themselves up by calling themselves a paramedic, and then proving they don't know anything, than I would like to count.

You want to be called a paramedic, fine. You want to be called an EMT, fabulous. You decide that you want your title to contain "Sea-going, wicker technician" well then by golly chase down the title.

I will agree with the gentleman from the north that mentioned most of the public view us as "drivers" only. If your colleagues can identify your level of education, then why worry about the public's perception. Mostly, they will decide what you do or don't know based entirely on how your uniform looks when you show up on their doorstep.

[Neesie]

you know azcep...you are right. I guess I need to let go of what "seems to be right and wrong" and worry about myself. I know that I don't mislead people. I make sure they know the truth about me. Whether or not I choose to call myself a paramedic or an EMT shouldn't matter. I show my patients that I am well educated, I do my job well and I am comfortable with doing what I have been trained to do. If I can make a difference in my patients outcome then great. If all I can do is comfort them while they are taking their last breaths...then so be it. I am an EMT/PCP...nothing more and nothing less.

[canuckEMT]

Nessie, I am going to assune that you are in Alberta. And if you are, you are an EMT NOT A PCP. The Alberta College of Paramedics has not adopted the title of PCP in Alberta.

True, almost all the programs in Alberta are instructing to the NOCP level of PCP, you just don't get the title. I don't have a problem with the PCP title as there is a distinguishing factor in the 3 titles as well. Primary, Advanced and Critical which have different knowledge level and skill set.

You wanna start another one, ACOP want's to give EMT-P's in Alberta the title of CCP whether you work in the air or on the ground.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but, there are greater things in EMS to worry about than what title you have. Keep doing what you are doing though in the aspect of educating your pt's. That is one responsibility that I believe is gone by the wayside with alot of practitioners these days.

[Patch]

There is nothing to be done about people who would commit fraud by misrepresentation or omission. What must be done by you, me and everyone who cares about this industry is to get the word out. We must educate everyone and their cousin about the details of every thing about prehospital care. Fire has a sweet rep mostly because their PR people have had a 200 year head start.

If anyone gives you an opening like " Are you a paramedic?" or "Where did you go to school?" or "Do you drive the fire truck too?", tell them and explain anything remotely related till their eyes roll back and they suffer a TIA from information overload. You can then practice your skills too!