Pharmacology

[buckeyedoc]

This is the very reason the new EMT-I (99) certification is going to get someone killed. They do not have the time to go into the depth of pharmacology that paramedic schools do...and paramedic schools don't even do enough. The Intermediate curriculum (of which I have several friends in) goes over the "A" portion of the 1st post. Here's the s/s, give NTG. That's the philosophy of the EMT-I(99). IMHO, the new EMT-I(99) is a stop-gap measure to fill the national paramedic shortage and it's going to cost lives and $$$. I don't have confidence in the vast majority of EMT-I(99) programs out there.

That's my $0.02.

Doc

[AZCEP]

Geez Doc, this is the philosophy of most paramedic programs as well.

With the number of programs that only want to get people out the door and on the streets with a certification, this problem is only going to get worse.

[buckeyedoc]

Geez Doc, this is the philosophy of most paramedic programs as well.

With the number of programs that only want to get people out the door and on the streets with a certification, this problem is only going to get worse.

You are very correct. All they care about is pass rate figures...and that's a shame. Fortunately, our instructors were wonderful and taught us quite a bit about pharmacology and other stuff of course. I don't think we did enough lab time, but that's the consensus of most programs.

[chbare]

This is just a side note and not intended to hijack the thread or bring up the whole RN versus Paramedic thing. I had the pleasure of talking with a couple of paramedic instructors that have nearly finished the curriculum development for a 2 year paramedic program. They both have masters degrees with education background and many years of paramedic field experience, so I think they are defiantly qualified as instructors. They told me that allot of medic schools focus on just the drugs that medics commonly give. These instructors audited several nursing courses and found that they really liked how the nurses had to take a dedicated pharmacology course and cover a broad range of medications and physiology. The instructors have designed a pharmacology course similar to what they went through. The instructors thought that covering a broad range of meds and disorders that these meds are used for, in addition to more in depth physiology and A&P requirements for the AS degree would better prepare the paramedics as opposed to teaching a "cook book" list of medications.

Take care,

chbare.

[vs-eh?]

These instructors audited several nursing courses and found that they really liked how the nurses had to take a dedicated pharmacology course and cover a broad range of medications and physiology.

So a lot of American paramedic programs DON'T have a dedicated pharmacology course as part of their program?

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But this shouldn't surprise me, considering apparently a lot of paramedic programs don't have OR rotations for intubations and/or only get/require a handful to "pass". :roll:

[AZCEP]

Nope, pharmacology is given it's due time of about a month. Then you will discuss the specific meds for a specific problem.

Pathophysiology is a pipe dream in most programs. Once you discuss acid/base and electrolytes, consider yourself done.

[Dustdevil]

So a lot of American paramedic programs DON'T have a dedicated pharmacology course as part of their program?

Most US paramedic programs don't have a specific course dedicated to any topic at all, much less pharmacology. Most US paramedic programs are not a serious of courses. They are just one long course with every topic mixed in like a salad. In those courses, pharmacology is around two to four weeks of the 10 month program. And that time is more focused upon teaching you only those concepts related to a specific list of drugs instead of a broad educational foundation in pharmacology in general. Many of the two-year programs really aren't much better.

[chbare]

Vs-eh?, I do not know if allot of US paramedic programs have a dedicated pharmacology course as a part of their program. It sounded like the paramedic programs that the instructors were talking about had a pharmacology portion, but it was integrated into the core paramedic course. The instructors designed a separate dedicated pharmacology course. Then, the students would be exposed to pharmacology again while taking the core paramedic curriculum. This is a 2 year course, so the medic students would have to complete a number of separate college level courses in addition to the paramedic portion of the program.

Take care,

chbare.

[buckeyedoc]

So a lot of American paramedic programs DON'T have a dedicated pharmacology course as part of their program?

...

...

...

But this shouldn't surprise me, considering apparently a lot of paramedic programs don't have OR rotations for intubations and/or only get/require a handful to "pass". :roll:

We had issues with a local hospital that the medic students weren't allowed to intubate. Of course, it came down to the bottom line. Because the hospital wasn't a certified "teaching" hospital, they anesthesiologists weren't able to bill the patient for the intubations. It always comes down to the bottom line. I think that there are several areas that our medic program could have improved on, but overall, it is a good program. There are good and bad programs all over the country. There is something to remember, though. You only get out of a program what you put into a program.

[Nate]

We had issues with a local hospital that the medic students weren't allowed to intubate. Of course, it came down to the bottom line. Because the hospital wasn't a certified "teaching" hospital, they anesthesiologists weren't able to bill the patient for the intubations. It always comes down to the bottom line. I think that there are several areas that our medic program could have improved on, but overall, it is a good program. There are good and bad programs all over the country. There is something to remember, though. You only get out of a program what you put into a program.

Very well said, and I would like to add onto that. There are 50 states in the US, there are 50 individual versions of these programs. This doesn't just go for EMS, this goes for every degree field, every subject, and every law. Generally they all meet the national standards, but they are all different in their own ways (and similar to each other in ways as well).

I have met a few of providers from Canada of both levels in real life. I was no more impressed by them then I was by other American paramedics and EMT's. It seems to be easy for our friends up North to poke at the American programs, but I would also like to point out the sheer volume of EMS providers that is required in the United States compared to Canada. There is good and bad in both countries, but if you want to pass judgment on an entire country; you must have the ability to say you've judged at least one program from every state for a random sampling. :wink:

Back to the subject at hand. I agree with Dustdevil, we should be on the C level, although most are only on the B level. My program didn't teach the C level on every medication (as there is no time); however we did get nearly every EMS drug on the C level and most other common medications seen in the field on the B level.

One question to throw out there, how many people can honestly say they have reference material (beyond a field guide) on the ambulance? I'm willing to bet not many.