Scene Saftey

[hammerpcp]

I was wondering if there is a generally accepted method of approaching a potentially unsafe scene. I know that even if I am dispatched to the call w/ lights and sirens I will turn them off when nearing the address. Then I will park the vehicle a safe distance away, ideally within eye shot of the address. Egress is always an important consideration. I always park the vehicle in a location where if I need to, I can give 'er and expedite out of there. Before entering a scene, or sometimes even getting out of the truck, I will let PD clear the scene. As far as I am concerned that is their job, not mine. They are the ones with the guns and training, and I will not put myself or my partner in unnecessary danger. You won't catch me following right behind the cops with all my equipment entering a potentially volatile environment. My blue canaries. :love10: I can't tell you how often someone comes running out of the house waving us down if we don't approach in this manner. In that situation the decision to often delay pt contact is much more difficult. Not only because of public image but because more often then not you then have confirmation on the pts condition. Questions, comments, concerns?

[weasel 108]

If we are dispatched for a call where the scene will be unsafe, we will usually stage a block from incident until P.D. secures the scene.

[hfdff422]

I am pushing for all responses to be non-signal 10 until the scene is safe for our department (the SD/PD says it is clear- which does not mean safe). There is no reason to go L+S to just wait a block away. This is a time when it is important to make sure there are several EMS and FD units available so that whoever is attending the patient can focus on the patient while another is watching his/her back and yet another stays outside. This is regardless of how many SD/PD are there.

[Dustdevil]

Cops on the scene is very overrated in EMS. Almost every time I have encountered gunplay or other violence on a scene, the cops were there. Nice to have around, but their presence is just short of meaningless really. And the false sense of security that so many providers get from them is just plain dangerous. They are just as likely to escalate a scene as they are to secure it.

I agree with 422 that running hot to stage is pointless, but the wankers love to do it. Not on my unit.

What is really bad are the idiots who run hot to the area, then shut down lights and sirens before making the scene. WTF is that rookie move all about? Do you really want to sneak up on these people? When I hit that scene, I want them to have heard me coming for five miles away. And when I arrive, I want my lights and sirens drawing as much attention as possible. I do NOT want anybody there to look up and suddenly be surprised to see my uniform standing there. I want them to have had plenty of opportunity to leave that scene and avoid authorities.

And another thing, you have to think about scene safety on ALL runs, not just the ones dispatched as violent. I have encountered violence more often on routine runs than on those dispatched with warnings. If I get a general sick call at 2am and arrive to find a completely dark crack house in the ghetto with nobody out front to meet me, I keep on driving. The PD can go knock on that door, not me. Don't get all hung up on dispatch info. It's even less reliable than the cops.

Unfortunately, there is no black-and-white about scene safety. What is "safe" to me may not be "safe" to you. There have been plenty of times that a partner and I have disagreed on it. There is no single factor -- including police presence -- that signals that a scene is absolutely "safe." You have to go with your gut instinct based upon the best information and experience you have. And you have to go with your partner's gut instinct too. If you think it's safe, but she does not, then it's a no go. No argument about it. You do NOT leave your partner, and you do NOT make a scene unless both of you agree on it.

[MedicNorth]

I agree with Dust (again!) - It is kinda like going into the woods when there are bears around - make lots of noise, get lots of attention, and give the critters an opportunity to be somewhere else when you get there. This covers most scenes where there is a human danger. The rest of the time its the old "rule of thumb". Cops, FD, and DOT hazmat can take care of things way better if you are well back until the scene is safe.

[Asysin2leads]

That kinda reminds me of those among our ranks who do everything in their power to dress, act, and give the impression of, being law enforcement. If, for some reason, I am anywhere near a scene that involves people with guns who are willing to use them, I want my clothing to be bright Department of Corrections orange, with reflective lettering on the front and back that says "NOT A COP, NOT ARMED, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T SHOOT", possibly with some flashing neon to go with it, and a full marching band with pipes and drums to announce my presence.

However, the people described above are of course useful to send into the scene first. If all else fails, find the dumbest guy on the scene and send him in. Fortunately for me, the FDNY EMS Command provides me with a whole bunch of eager assholes from Long Island with every episode of Third Watch on tape at my disposal to check out questionable scenes for me. Thanks guys!

[whit72]

Never had a problem at a scene that is supposed to be unsafe. Only problem Ive had is at the ones seem to be safe. I am more weary about "uknowns or PLO's" then shots fired or GSW calls. When those go out we have more then adequate police presence. Its the uknown at 3am in the vicinity of... that make me think twcie about heading in.

[FarNorthMedic]

And another thing, you have to think about scene safety on ALL runs, not just the ones dispatched as violent. I have encountered violence more often on routine runs than on those dispatched with warnings. If I get a general sick call at 2am and arrive to find a completely dark crack house in the ghetto with nobody out front to meet me, I keep on driving. The PD can go knock on that door, not me. Don't get all hung up on dispatch info. It's even less reliable than the cops.

[Eydawn]

Holy Poo poo indeed!! Whoa!! Amazing what things will turn into... like the "dizzy" call I went on where a pit bull came out from behind the couch. "Well, hey there, pooch... oh $hit... guys? That's a pit bull... Um.. can you lock you dog in the other room please... "

Generally try to acquaint myself with pooches; I read dog body language pretty well, but I don't mess with pit bulls.

Wendy

NREMT-B

CO EMT-B

MI EMT-B

[Patch]

How many people have walked through the gates of heaven saying to St. Peter," Yep, I saw that coming from a mile away!"?