Question about getting a job.

[Lone Star]

A lot of our private companies will put new EMT's in the wheel chair vans first to get them used to it and also have them do extensive ride alongs after their chair shifts are over. this seems to work out pretty well. Just my 2 cents

I personally disagree with this practice. Working a wheelchair service as an EMT does NOT get the EMT's working in their field of training. In the State of Michigan, there are certain exemptions to the motor vehicle code that are afforded to police, fire, and EMS. For example, the EMT is not required to have a chauffers license in order to transport people as an EMT. If your state has this exemption as well, the EMT that works the non emergency transportation division is in violation of the local motor vehicle code, simply by working on a vehicle that transports other people for hire. All the wheel chair van is, is a taxi cab that is designed for the ability to move the wheelchair with the person in it. Taxi drivers are required to have a chauffers license, and so are the wheelchair van drivers. Both transport people 'for hire' (they charge money for transportation services).

If the wheel chair bound customer (they should not be considered patients because they are not being transported in an ambulance, nor are they receiving medical attention by qualified medical services provider), is in such poor health, they should be transported by ambulance, and attended to by EMT's. In the event that an emergency does arise with the wheelchair bound customer, the EMT chauffer is completely unprepared and unequipped to deal with it.

Keep the EMT's in the ambulances, and leave the wheelchair transport to the chauffers!

[Dustdevil]

There in no bigger help on scene than a BLS provider who is solid with their skills and who is familiar with ALS equipment.

Actually, a paramedic would be a much bigger help. Especially as far as the patient is concerned.

[Coach Hohman]

Dust Devil, Your two posts on here are the two most arrogant and ignorant thing I've seen anyone post on here. Sure, a paramedic would be helpful...but where I'm from *Gasp, a volunteer squad* we make due with what we have. Telling people not to volunteer because it's a disgrace to the profession is not only assanine, but untrue. I volunteer because my community needs it, not because I love to play doctor. I'm a successful coach and teacher, a good EMT and a caring person. Does that mean I shouldn't be an EMT and no one on my squad should volunteer because they're disgracing someone. You're probably from the city, and a city where volunteering to help people is far fetched. I respect a good number of your posts, but to this I completley disagree. In my town if our patients (who are many times family, friends, or in my case my students) waited for the nearest paid squad they'd have a half hour response time and a 20 minute transport time. Instead, because of a group of VOLUNTEERS they can get to the hospital in 15 minutes if we scoop and go with a trauma. You might thing of volunteers as a bunch of rednecks that crawl out of the fields to come stick people with IV's, but some of our EMT-B's are also Lifeflight nurses, RN's, LPN's, and one of them is a cardiac care nurse at St. Vincent's Medical Center in Toledo (one of the top cardiac hospitals in the nation). So before you judge people for what they do for their community as a "threat" to what you do for a living. Come run a couple shifts out here in Tiffin, Ohio...I can assure you that we do the absolute best that we can for our patients, just the same as you do at your paid squad. Whatever your beef is with BLS units or Basic EMT's...we're not in it to be career basics in all cases, we're in it to help those around us.

[quint]

Good Luck AngryPenguin, you have a lot of work ahead of you no matter what EMS road you take. I will give you a little advice, never stop advancing your knowledge in this field, regardless if you move to ALS or not.

Good post Coach! =D> I started as a volunteer, went paid as an EMT now I am on a paid fire department, don't see the connection to being a whacker (I believe that to be an individual not a status issue)

[SGT.M]

personally disagree with this practice. Working a wheelchair service as an EMT does NOT get the EMT's working in their field of training. In the State of Michigan, there are certain exemptions to the motor

I was just saying its a good way to get your feet wet as far as driving and dealing with yes patients most of these people i am talking about are dialysis Pt's and such not just taxi cab rides and in this state you have to be an EMT-B to drive one.

[Dustdevil]

Dust Devil' date=' Your two posts on here are the two most arrogant and ignorant thing I've seen anyone post on here.[/quote']

Actually, for it to have been arrogant, I would have to have said something about myself. I did not. See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogant.

No. An EMT would be "helpful." Helpful isn't worth squat to your mother's heart attack. I'll take a paramedic, please.

No. You have it completely backwards. Your community doesn't "need" volunteers at all. Because you and others love to play doctor for free, your community refuses to provide what they really need. YOU are the reason that your community doesn't have full-time medical professionals staffing EMS, and the reason people are constantly on here whining that they can't find a job.

Uhhh... I didn't say that. Get your quotes right. :roll:

Yes, but you wouldn't be if thousands of wankers decided that it would be fun to teach and coach part-time for free. You'd be unemployed and whining on the NEA message board about how you couldn't find a job because of all the hobbyists doing it for nothing. Get my point?

Again, not my quote.

Wrong again. I live on a farm in the country and have worked most of my 30 plus year career in rural systems. PAID rural systems.

That's funny, because in the thread I was reading right before this one, I saw your post and thought, "hey, this guy knows what he's talking about!" You're obviously an intelligent and thinking man. But you're too caught up in your own little world to see the big picture. I have faith that you are smart enough to see it after a little time here, if you have an open mind. That's the beauty of this community. You get exposed to points of view you never considered before and, if you allow it, your vision is improved.

Again, YOU are the cause of this problem. Because your town has a bunch of willing warm bodies who want to play with the siren and get half price Dairy Queen food, they don't think they have to provide a professional service. If everybody stopped volunteering tomorrow, you'd have a paid, full-time, professional EMS service by the end of the week.

Yeah, that's wonderful for the less than ten percent of patients you get who are critical trauma. The rest are getting screwed.

Nope. Never questioned their abilities. It's not about that. I don't care if they are trauma surgeons and cardiac intensivists. If they aren't manning the ambo full time, 24/7, guaranteed, then they aren't professionals and they are shorting the community.

The "absolute best" you can isn't good enough. Full time pros would be better. Not cheaper, but definitely better. And it's all about quality.

And, perhaps you haven't read below my name, but I am not on a "squad."

My beef is that they are both inadequate, and in most cases, in it for themselves, not to help others. Otherwise, they'd be out driving school buses or filling potholes for free. Our kids education is more important than EMS, yet you don't see people lining up to teach part-time for free. Although, they probably would if they gave teachers a badge and a siren.

You're a smart man, but you have a lot to learn about EMS.

[Coach Hohman]

Arrogant reffering to you talking about medics as if god himself floated into my MVA and saved the day. I work with some great medics, but they can only do so much. I don't volunteer because I have a siren and lights, I volunteer because I watched my friend die in a car accident and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. But hey, that's ok...if I had some paramedics on a paid service I could have waited 20 minutes on them...oh that's right..my volunteer squad was there in half that time WITH a paramedic. I don't do it for a badge or anything (I don't even have a badge). Wankers? Yeah, sorry...we're taking away from the only paid service in our county...the guys who run 50 calls a week in their city as it is. I don't see how we're hurting their buisness any, and in fact a lot of them work volunteer in the small communities around here. You get your paycheck signed the same way with the same amount (or lack) of money. I don't mean to say that paid services are greedy or that you aren't good at your jobs, but rather I dont' see what a paid medic can do that a volunteer one can't and vice versa. I believe in seeing things for face value...a paid basic EMT is probably not much better trained than a volunteer and vice versa. You make it sound like they just get some guy off the street, put a light and siren on his car (I don't have either of those) and give him a trauma kit and send him on his way. We're trained the same, we offer the same treatment as a paid service. I'm not closed minded about this as you say...but I see it for face value. Sure, a paramedic would be better for our patients...but we don't have any on the one service I run on. The other service has 6 medics and a 5 minute transport time. Usually in that five minutes they don't do anything that a basic couldn't do, so what's the point? All that I ask from this discussion (which isn't going anywhere) is that you see SOME value to BLS units. Volunteer or not, I don't give 2 craps if I have a light and siren and I don't do it for myself, as you say. I do it so other people don't have to wait for care and wait for god..er..paramedics to come and do the same thing we'd do anyway...call the bird

[Dustdevil]

I don't mean to say that paid services are greedy or that you aren't good at your jobs, but rather I dont' see what a paid medic can do that a volunteer one can't...

They can get there faster, because they are not at home, five miles from the station, watching "Turd Watch" or "Saved" with their pants around their ankles. They can do a better assessment and render more proficient treatment because they get more practise. They can respond to ALL calls for service because they are required to, and not ignore the tones for the fever or the elderly broken hip at 0200 becuase it doesn't sound exciting enough for them. They can attend more continuing education because they aren't working a second full-time job somewhere taking up all their time. That's just for starters. I could go on, but it's already been done here a million times.

I'm not closed minded about this as you say...but I see it for face value.

I never said you were closed minded. I only said you were not yet seeing the big picture. And, in fact, I said I felt confident that after a little education, you were quite capable of seeing the big picture, instead of making myopic "face value" assumptions.

Sure, a paramedic would be better for our patients...but we don't have any on the one service I run on.

And YOU are the reason why.

Usually in that five minutes they don't do anything that a basic couldn't do, so what's the point?

If you were an experienced paramedic, you would know the point. If your mother died of a heart attack because there was no paramedic, you would know too. Or, you might possibly just complain that volunteer EMT's should be allowed to do paramedic skills in your community, but I sure hope not.

All that I ask from this discussion (which isn't going anywhere) is that you see SOME value to BLS units.

I do. I have frequently stated so. I give them as much credit as I give anybody who takes a first aid course in hopes of helping their fellow man. It's wonderful. We need lots more people like that in every community. But they have no business on an emergency ambulance. And, in fact, their 120 hours of training would be laughed out of the station in most every other civilised country in the world.

I do it so other people don't have to wait for care and wait for god..er..paramedics to come and do the same thing we'd do anyway...call the bird

I don't doubt that is your motivation. I am not questioning your personal motivation. I am only saying that you are misinformed and misguided, because if you really wanted to help your community, you would be at every city council and county commissioners meeting pushing them to provide full-time professional paramedic services to YOUR community, not giving them excuses to not do so.

[fire911medic]

Gentleman, let's not get into a pissing contest here. Dust - I may disagree with you occasionally, but I think you are knowledgeable in many aspects of emergency medicine and do contribute nicely here. I am thankful for our volunteers as most of the time we do not need additional assistance, but on those times we do, it is wonderful to have them. Do we need to pay an extra crew or two for three or four calls a month? Stupidity. I did the volunteer thing with a rescue squad, and yes, I left them due to their lack of concern. We have another service in town, but they are strictly BLS transfer and the counties surrounding us are solely BLS, next ALS county is almost 45 min away. Volunteers can be our life savers as all are basic trained with about half being medics. When we call, they come. It does not matter what it is, lifting a heavy patient or dealing with a multi crash scene (as we had almost 30 pts due to a huge pile up one day). Us and the next counties couldn't handle all the patients with staff on duty, and several of our volly medics went on transport with their trucks. I wouldn't trade 'em for anything. Having the extra crews is nice, but having the response vehicles, paying the crews, funding the equipment (most vollys carry their own bags stocked by us) and things is simply beyond our county's budget. We are fortunate to have paid fire (we are only paid career fire in the area) and EMS. We have nice trucks which were purchased courtesy of a grant from Homeland Security. We also have new turnouts and scotts for that reason and beautifully stocked trucks with the latest and greatest. I'm content. Some people simply can't afford to leave their well paying jobs wherever to work EMS as we all know it doesn't pay that great. Just because you can't afford to do this as a career doesn't mean you should be excluded. Volunteers (well trained) are welcome at my department anytime !

[Lone Star]

If you were an experienced paramedic, you would know the point. If your mother died of a heart attack because there was no paramedic, you would know too. Or, you might possibly just complain that volunteer EMT's should be allowed to do paramedic skills in your community, but I sure hope not.

In April 2001, My father passed away from an acute M/I. He was attended to by THREE (3) full time PAID paramedics (Two were with a service, and the other was employed by the county Sherriffs department, which respsonds to all tier 1 medical calls). I'm thinking that the 'extra practice' in this case didn't make 'perfect' (as sthe old adage goes).

I could go on about how paid paramedics didn't provide adequate care, and in at least one case, did LESS than what a Basic would have done! In fact, in one case the pt was a Basic IN UNIFORM! (The attending PARAMEDIC no longer has a license in this state.)

I'm guessing that this whole 'Basics vs Medics, and paragods rule' stuff is getting out of hand. We're all on the same team here, whether we make $20,000 (or more) a year or not. The bottom line in this is that the vast majority of us in this field are in it to help those that need our service.

Granted, there are those in the field that would probably 'run hot' to every call that was ever dispatched....the majority in this field are competent, trained PROFESSIONALS.

I personally am getting tired of watching one license level trash another just to make themselves feel better. It's no different than the cops bashing security officers for being 'hobby cops' and active duty military bashing the National Guard as 'weekend warriors'....

I would guess that as long as there's a license level above us, no one would amount to a steaming pile of what we should have scraped off the bottom of our boots, unless we all were Doctors!