Multiple agency response

[medic001918]

This is something I had posted about in another thread a while back, but it got lost somewhere so I'll bring it up again.

Do we do patients any good by having so many different providers on an emergency scene? Here's an example from the service I work in. It's not uncommon to have a BLS engine first respond, a transporting ambulance, at least one (usually two) police officers, and depending on the location of the call an intercept paramedic unit. So let's go on the short side and say it's a 3 person engine (usually 4-5 people though), one to two police officers, two members from the ambulance crew and one intercept paramedic (even if the transporting ambulance is an ALS unit). That's a minimum of 8 different people coming to someone's house for one medical call. Is this really the most effective use of resources? And does it really provide any level of benefit for the patient? Something to think about...

Shane

NREMT-P

[AZCEP]

Not unless they all have specific jobs that they know they have to do before they arrive on scene.

Otherwise, you end up herding cats.

[rescue25]

What's the reasoning behind having police respond to (most) every call?

Under ideal circumstances, an ALS transport unit would be all that's needed for the majority of calls, but of course geography and underfunded/poorly organized EMS systems mean that's not necessarily the reality in many areas.

Engine + BLS transport + ALS chaser + PD seems excessive for ordinary medical calls, though.

The city EMS system near me is entirely ALS and only sends BLS engines (simply due to proximity; although most of the time, the ambulance is less than 8 minutes - often 4 minutes - away from any given calls) to chest pain, diff. breathing, codes, and MVAs. There might be a few other instances, but those are the major ones.

[Michael]

Q.: How many Teamsters does it take to change a lightbulb?

A.: 18. You got a problem wi' dat?

[ffpm41]

Are the coppers EMT's? Is it a Public Safety Department (combo fire/police)?

[strippel]

That's too many people.

On our serious calls (like cardiac arrest) we get a 2 person ALS ambulance, and a 3 person engine, or 2 person truck. Most of the time, our supervisor won't show up, unless requested.

Here's the thing. Our cops and FD have AEDs, and are required to show up on any call where it may be used. Initially, we may have an engine crew, and a dozen cops, but unless it is a crime scene, all but one leave....rapidly. He just hangs out to make sure all is safe. We have them trained well, they then get us info.

That said, yesterday we had a cardiac arrest. We were on scene, and had the airway and IV before two cops showed. They attempted to ID the patient, but were unable, and stepped back. Within about 5 minutes, we had volunteer fire there, with a duty vehicle and engine, crew of 10. We let them have fun. The chief drove, one FF did compressions, and another BVM. Ended up being a good team-building session. Normally, this dept has more testosterone than water, but they did a good job.

[itku2er]

Here where i Live in Va we dont have the cops on every scene...just MVC, Domestics, Violent patients (which most the time that is REAL HELPFUL :roll: :roll: ) OD'S, And Unattended deaths....OR any crime scene.....

The FD only goes if it is a FIRE, MVC, or extra lifting assistance is needed......or if any kind of extracation is needed

The ambulance crews are as follows.....ALS units here usually all paid services.....so they have als avaible 24/7

the volly squads we have are mixed BLS ALS depends on who is doing a call shift....but there is always usually a ALS person either intermediate or Medic that is doing on call ALS back up if needed......

but it goes back to the other thread.........a zillion people show up for a MVC.....but no one wants to take Grandma to the ER when she falls down.......apples and oranges ...............

just my 2 cents worth........

Terri

[SA_Medic]

From my point of view,

If we had to have the amount of resources dispached in SA mentioned above, the system would would implode upon itself. There is alraidy a huge fight ongoing between EMS and fire in the area I live, to such an extent that when they do get dispatched to the scene I usually worry more about the fist fight that might break any moment than being run over by some drunk idiot thinking the ambo is a disco or something.

An utter waste of money and resources. If fire is not needed, leave them in their station and let EMS do their jobs. If PD is not needed, leave to eat their doughnuts in peace (just kidding).

Regards

S

[Just Plain Ruff]

The majority of the systems I've worked has been a 2 medic ambo and thats it, cardiac arrests, overdoses, shootings(gets the cops there though) and other calls all get one ambulance and 2 medics on it.

Wrecks unless extrication is required only got us too. If extrication was needed then a rescue.

PD/sheriff/highway patrol - came if they weren't busy or were bored.

[medic001918]

Now that we've gotten some discussion going on about the topic. The large response is in a town that's rather well off financially. The police go to every medical call, the FD goes to chest pain, SOB, unresponsive. Bascially anything that might sound decent. The police officers are trained to the MRT level and are typically very helpful to us.

When I'm working in the city, we're lucky to get a cop for anything that doesn't sound like it's a police matter and the fire department comes to just about every call. There are calls that we get sent to often just as the ambulance. It's not the best use of resources, but it's better than what the wealthier town does.

Shane

NREMT-P