ONLINE based continuing education

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Online based EMS continuing education programs...opinions?

[Ridryder 911]

Just like many ways of education this can be an asset. However; never to replace some of the traditional way of one on one teaching. Used as an alternative yes, it is definitely helpful.

My EMS is considering placing such a program for it ease to use, the availability and as well it keeps track of CEU hours etc.. now the downside. The hospital I work for has it.. spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to designing such etc.. Yes, people use them (they have to) but they fast forward the videos, someone writes or copies the answers down so one can literally skip thorough it... main point, no one benefited, wasted time, money and effort if not used properly.

Like I described used as an adjunct to traditional CEU's, a great alternative and tool.....

R/r 911

[Arachne]

My company recently started using "Medic Ed" (www.mediced.com). I appreciate the ease of use, being able to do con-ed on my own time, and (supposedly) it will report your hours/credits to the National Registry or the states of MA/NJ as appropriate.

In the end, however, it's not the same as live education. It's a pile of slides that you read and a 10 or 15 question quiz at the end. In theory they're one or two hour "lectures", but I can usually get through a "two hour" one in about 30 minutes. Some lectures are limited to ALS, but even ones that include BLS often have ALS questions on the quiz...it's tedious to flip through slides to find a dosage that you don't need to know because you can't do IVs, never mind give the drug. It is also very general - it does not help with specific information for your district/region/state. The major disadvantage, however, is that you can't ask questions, there is no discussion. You completely lose the benefits of interacting with a good lecturer and with classmates. A multiple-choice quiz is just not the same.

As an overall tool, I don't find it as helpful as live training. I am unimpressed that our clinical coordinator/education coordinator has chosen this in lieu of live con-ed. It would be great if it was being used as a supplement, but in our case it has completely replaced live education, which I find to be overall detrimental. Perhaps "Use with caution" would be appropriate.

[AZCEP]

There are a number of online CE programs available, and the EMS based one's that I've participated in have been garbage.

The useful programs are those that make you think about the problem that is being discussed, or make you consider how to apply the information. The EMS directed examples dumb things down to the point that little, to nothing is learned. Much of the included information is regurgitated from the EMS textbook of the month, so there is very little new and applicable information.

Medscape and cyberrounds have some pretty good programs. Even though they present the information well above the standard EMS mindset, the applicable information is very useful.

[ffpm41]

We use King County's (Washington State) online CE with practical stations for each topic (i.e long board scenario) for EMTs. Medics have to do both the EMT CE, monthly medic base station meetings with CE topics plus the typical ACLS, PALS, and other classes. The old way for EMTs was having a monthly class with no real lesson plan that turned into a group test and no hands on.

I like the online topics and think they are very much more in depth than just having anyone teach the class. At the end you have a timed online test that you cannot close to look up the answers with an instant score. The scenarios are graded with a sheet that is not as extensive as the national registry, but on the same token is not dumbed down.

Online CE can be a good thing as long as you have some sort of hands on evolutions.

[AnatomyChick]

PRPG,

I think that online CE's have their placed... and that place IMHO is to act as a "filler" for what you cannot receive via "live" format. The NR only allows 10 hours of online education for renewals.... so, entities that are attempting to use this as their "main education" may end up with a rude awakening down the line.

EMS is a skills driven field... with that said, I think it's important to have "live" training courses, with Critical Thinking Challenges and Skills performed as a part of scenarios.... Just my .02 though.

[Savoy6]

PRPG,

I think that online CE's have their placed... and that place IMHO is to act as a "filler" for what you cannot receive via "live" format. The NR only allows 10 hours of online education for renewals.... so, entities that are attempting to use this as their "main education" may end up with a rude awakening down the line.

EMS is a skills driven field... with that said, I think it's important to have "live" training courses, with Critical Thinking Challenges and Skills performed as a part of scenarios.... Just my .02 though.

EMS is skills driven- No offense, but to use skills properly one must have training or education. As they say, "you can teach a monkey to do that", but does the monkey know when to do a skill and why? You are absolutely correct, "critical thinking", that is needed tp be taught from day one in EMS courses. It's not, know why, instructors were never taught it, so the incestuous cycle continues. If providers were taught that, many clinical complaints and investigations would not occur. Simply put, angel on right shoulder, devil on left. Who do you listen too?? and what are the consequences for your patient. Okay, forest vs trees, zebras vs horses. How about- If I did this would mommy be mad at me?

I think the reliance on motor skills over cognitive is a mistake. Online does have a function. how one uses it is the key. As you know in MO we can use ditributive learning for 100% relicensure. An employer should, in a perfect world, be doing skills review and validation annually. I know it doesn't happen, but I can dream can't I.

One advantage is for rural folks that cannot afford to travel to numerous classes, or none are available close by as is the norm in urban or suburban areas and may or may not be practicing. Or office bound admiinistrators(who me??)

if a traiing coordinator at a service or facility is using "internet" as the sole source, why have that position??? Heck anyone with a checking account or credit card, an internet hookup and a computer can do that. Live training shoud be "live"

Also people learn in various manners. Some cannot learn from a computer and others are bored by lackluster instructors rehashing the same crap every year, "because the state requires it". Continuing education- just the name gives it away,"CONTINUING". Not initial EMT or Paramedic. This is where the '94 EMT-B opened the door for the, dare I say, "nice to know" things EMS providers need. There are too many people that are locked in the box. All they teach is what they think that nebulous entity "the state" requires. Some states, not mine, dictate almost all aspects of training, taking creative thought and training away. " The man's a heretic!!!" Yep I am. darned proud of it too., just ask me.

But hey, look at my profile I'm a "newbie", what do I know??

Sorry for the rant. too much coffee and House on USA last night. Hey Dr. House and i have the same first name! I see a pattern emerging here

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

if a traiing coordinator at a service or facility is using "internet" as the sole source, why have that position??? Heck anyone with a checking account or credit card, an internet hookup and a computer can do that. Live training shoud be "live"

Well put.

Computer based education is a creative way for students to get their "tickets punched" without having to go through the effort of actually educating themselves.

This type of education promotes one thing. Laziness. Anyone who got the email with the answers for every fema IS-100 through 700 answer can attest to that one.

PRPG

[Ridryder 911]

Continuing education and refresher is not and should not be the same category, unfortunately most instructors, training officers as well as staff "lump" them into the same.

When we give CEU's are they really learning new concepts and ideas or new or in-depth education to expand their knowledge or just the same old curriculum?

Refresher is to review the curriculum, CEU's is increase knowledge and gain insight on new things.

I feel we limit ourselves in EMS. If it is not directly related to EMS or prehospital then we should not learn it.. again, limiting our knowledge.

Maybe we can compile a list of potential topics, then we can purpose for lesson plans, lecture outline, as well if needed skills sheets and pppt that could accompany it.

R/r 911

[Savoy6]

Continuing education and refresher is not and should not be the same category, unfortunately most instructors, training officers as well as staff "lump" them into the same.

When we give CEU's are they really learning new concepts and ideas or new or in-depth education to expand their knowledge or just the same old curriculum?

Refresher is to review the curriculum, CEU's is increase knowledge and gain insight on new things.

I feel we limit ourselves in EMS. If it is not directly related to EMS or prehospital then we should not learn it.. again, limiting our knowledge.

Maybe we can compile a list of potential topics, then we can purpose for lesson plans, lecture outline, as well if needed skills sheets and pppt that could accompany it.

R/r 911

Here, Here, well put. It's funny when "the powers to be" want to control knowledge. "EMT's can't learn that" "Don't teach them that"

The thought police belong in SCI-FI. As an EMT I had an opportunity to be trained by some of the best surgeons I've ever seen.

What i could do in the military as an 18-22 year old was taboo in the civiilian world, but it was beneficial in my Paramedic school. I was taught assessment skills that far surpassed the initial EMT-P curicullum, but knowledge is power. I would rather have well trained EMT-B's in assessment than Paramedics who know less, but can do skills. Without assessment, skills are useless and or dangerous. Pigeon holes are for the birds, literally.

We need EMT's and Paramedics. Not every patient needs a paramedic to care for them. use your resources wisely, train your people and then, educate them. if you have to ask the difference, go back to school.