Saving Lives

[Quint7Paramedic]

I was interested to hear other peoples opinions about what the difinition of "saved life" really means. The website http://www.thefreedictionary.com/save+own+life-----was used for the definition.

1.

a. To rescue from harm, danger, or loss.

b. To set free from the consequences of sin; redeem.

2. To keep in a safe condition; safeguard.

3. To prevent the waste or loss of; conserve.

4. To set aside for future use; store.

5. To treat with care by avoiding fatigue, wear, or damage; spare: save one's eyesight.

6. To make unnecessary; obviate: Your taking the trunk to the attic has saved me an extra trip.

The above ws part of the definition of "saved life".

If a patient is code, and you bring him in through the ED doors, with a pulse, techinically he is alive. Once you passed the ER doors the patients care is in the Emergency Medicine certified doctor. He is the chief person in care of the patient. As we see in definition, 2, it states to keep in a safe condidition. When you bring a patient that coded in through the doors WITH a pulse, you have kept him in a safe condition, because without your help, the person would surely have been a gonner.As we see with definition 3, it states to prevent the waste or loss of. When you bring a patient in that is only BIOLOGICALLY dead, the patient MAY under RARE circumstances be revived. Again if someone is BIOLOGICALLY dead, he is not completely dead. Since you have "prevented the waste of", you have saved his life. Someone said that in order to really "save a life", th patient has to live and walk out of the hospital, but again, the definition states....."to prevent the waste of", if you provide emergeny prehospital care....you have prevented the loss of life (that is if you bring the patient through ER doors BIOLOGICALLY alive. If you work a code, and the patient survives, but dies a couple days later, to me I still saved his life. DO YOU THINK THAT IF YOU SAVE A PATIENT BUT THE PATIENT DIES IN A FEW DAYS, DO YOU THINK YOU SAVED THE PERSONS LIFE? :wink:

[Ridryder 911]

This is an ethical and deep philosophical question, because we really never save a life, all must die. Then the definition of what "life" is interpreted as well. To cause a heart beat back and the patient has 3/4 of the brain matter absent or missing only the brain stem is producing the pulse, have you saved a life or just started a pulse back on a live corpse? Then, if they were an organ donor.. another philosophical question.

I must correct you on ......."Once you passed the ER doors the patients care is in the Emergency Medicine certified doctor. He is the chief person in care of the patient. As we see in definition, 2, it states to keep in a safe condition."...... is not an accurate statement. In comparison there are very few board certified ER physicians in every ER. As well, they may not be the chief person in charge of the patient..i.e Surgeon, Neuro.. etc.

I personally do NOT describe a save as one that regains a pulse... enough medications, right circumstances, can produce a pulse.. a save is one that is productive or able to brought back to society, family setting. A person laying, rotting with decubti, sepsis, non-responsive with deep neuro or EEG findings, rather just a pulse is a save?...

There are many hundred times I have "shocked" a rhythm pattern, but I do not consider this a save rather than just treatment for a specific condition.

Our job is very important, but we are just the very tip of actually performing medical care.

R/r 911

[AZCEP]

A "saved" patient is one that is able to resume a level of function that they had prior to arresting. If we keep them alive in ICU for several weeks, and they die on a ventilator, that does not count.

[Lone Star]

This is an ethical and deep philosophical question, because we really never save a life, all must die. Then the definition of what "life" is interpreted as well. To cause a heart beat back and the patient has 3/4 of the brain matter absent or missing only the brain stem is producing the pulse, have you saved a life or just started a pulse back on a live corpse? Then, if they were an organ donor.. another philosophical question.

I must correct you on ......."Once you passed the ER doors the patients care is in the Emergency Medicine certified doctor. He is the chief person in care of the patient. As we see in definition, 2, it states to keep in a safe condition."...... is not an accurate statement. In comparison there are very few board certified ER physicians in every ER. As well, they may not be the chief person in charge of the patient..i.e Surgeon, Neuro.. etc.

I personally do NOT describe a save as one that regains a pulse... enough medications, right circumstances, can produce a pulse.. a save is one that is productive or able to brought back to society, family setting. A person laying, rotting with decubti, sepsis, non-responsive with deep neuro or EEG findings, rather just a pulse is a save?...

There are many hundred times I have "shocked" a rhythm pattern, but I do not consider this a save rather than just treatment for a specific condition.

Our job is very important, but we are just the very tip of actually performing medical care.

R/r 911

two simple words.....: Respondeat Superior...Let the Master Respond. The E/D phsician/medical control director must make the call after the EMT(?) brings the pt into the Emergency Department and transfers care to the E/D. If we do everything possible in the field that our license lvel allows, we are 'saved' from any and all liability incurred during treatment in the field.

[MedicBob]

I and most of my coworkers call a "save" on when D/Ced and "intact" from the hospital. Intact would be able to do what they want, able to work, play with the kids, etc.

I agree we really don't save a life as we prolong it.

[Ridryder 911]

"Lone Star":...."two simple words.....: Respondeat Superior...Let the Master Respond. The E/D phsician/medical control director must make the call after the EMT(?) brings the pt into the Emergency Department and transfers care to the E/D. If we do everything possible in the field that our license lvel allows, we are 'saved' from any and all liability incurred during treatment in the field".......

??? I hope you are not describing that just because a physician assumes care you are then removed from any liability. This is far from it. You can still be held responsible for any and all your performance and care or lack of it. I have seen physicians testify against EMT's care... so don't make false reassurances that because a physician assumes responsibility you are cleared.

R/r 911

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

two simple words.....: Respondeat Superior...Let the Master Respond. The E/D phsician/medical control director must make the call after the EMT(?) brings the pt into the Emergency Department and transfers care to the E/D. If we do everything possible in the field that our license lvel allows, we are 'saved' from any and all liability incurred during treatment in the field.

Wrong.

Physicians cant be responsible for patients they cant see.

WE, and only we, are responsible for the patients we see in the field. Think im wrong?

http://www.defrance.org/artman/publish/article_167.shtml

http://www.merginet.com/index.cfm?pg=asses...atientInterview

Theres more...but try these first.

[uglymedic]

If a patient can be rescuscitated long enough for their family to come in, say goodbye, and be there with them when they die, then my job is done.

The family can also have peace in knowing that everything was done for their family member.

Philosophy - schmilosophy. It ain't rocket science!

ugly

[Scaramedic]

I agree with the above statements, a save is someone who walks out of the hospital and continues on with his/her life. Just because we got spontaneous respiration's and a pulse does not equal a save in my books. A service I worked for used to give out "Save Award" certificates, I thought they were a joke and properly round filed them when I found them in my mailbox.

Peace,

Marty

:joker:

P.S. PRPG your new sig is creeping me out! Freaky dancing chicken oh my!!!

[chbare]

I agree that this is a very deep philosophical question. My opinion on the whole "lifesaving business" is based around my belief that we humans have very little control over life and death. I think that we play a role in promoting life, but the final decision is up to somebody or something with power far beyond my ability to comprehend. In addition, I agree that we play a role in helping family and friends through the traumatic process of death and disease, and we play a role in helping people live and die with dignity and comfort.

Take care,

chbare.