Young ride alongs and EMT's

[Ace844]

"Timmy,"

Please re-read "walrus's" post i think you may have mis-understood his point.

ACE

[EMS49393]

Dude come on... I never said I was a paramedic dont have anywere near the skills and experience they have and I havent been to uni for 4 years... Im only qualifyed in advanced first aid and basic EMS and would never go any futher that what Ive been trained to do. And Im not one of those cadets who think there god I love learning new skills and take all the adivce I can get and then try to put it into practise. The situations Ive been put in with a cadet crew havent been easy the only reason there were no adults was casue there was none availbe at them time and this guy needed urgent treatment and would have died b4 an adult got there! I live in a rural area my divison covers the biggest area in the state and were understaffed for most of our dutys so you take wat you've got and if thats a bunch of 16 year olds then so be it...

Oh and wats driving a car got to do with a C spine fracture???

No offense, but I'd rather lay still and pray for adult ALS then be "treated" by children. If you can't drive a car, you can't drive an ambulance which means you can't get a patient to any definitive care. I doubt your basic first aid is going to cure a c-spine fracture. That type of patient generally has more underlying injuries and requires at least monitoring and fluids, if not more advanced interventions. They also require a fast ride to the trauma center, something that you can't provide if you're unable to drive an ambulance. What kind of "urgent treatment" are you providing that is so life-saving? Could you please share an example or two of this "treatment." The thing is, you make very little sense with your reasoning. Your writing itself is barely understandable with it's shoddy grammar and spelling errors. You expect me to trust you to handle a medical emergency when you can't drive me to the one place I need to be in such an emergency?

On a side note, I counted 19 spelling errors, and more grammatical errors then I have fingers and toes. The least you could do is utilize spell check. The point you are attempting to prove is overshadowed by your childlike ramblings.

[whit72]

jpinv wrote:

Being proud that you have a "certificate" equates to being a moron, regardless of your level. Providers should be proud of their education, if they have one. The letters behind your name might allow you to do something, but the path to your current locatin determins how good of a provider you are.

Oh, most of the medics in this country hold "certificates". I do not judge my accomplishments by the letters that follow my name. Yes I hold A EMT " License" but there also education behind that I don't feel the need to flaunt.

This is an EMT/MEDIC forum. Neither of which is a degree required position. They are tech positions, I have no problem admitting that to my self. Put all the fancy dressing on it you want. In the end it is what it is.

In the future that may change.

[JPINFV]

Did I ever say anything about degreed programs? Education can occur in a normal program. Education can occur while sitting in front of a computer or a book. That still doesn't mean that passing the class or getting a certificate (especially EMT- is something to be proud of when there are a lot of less then desirable providers out there. Remember, that certificate says that you [you not being directed at Whit] are equilivant to the worst provider out there of that level. Especially in the case of EMT-basics, that can be a very low bar.

For the record, I'm a licensed "Ambulance Attendent." Does this make me better then my non-licensed brethern? Nope. Licenses or certificates do not determin how good of a provider you are, only a generalized usefulness (i.e. SOP).

[GAmedic1506]

I think it depends on what level of emt they are, and how your service uses them. I do not believe EMT-Bs should be on an ambulance, but I think EMT-Is should be. At our service, we do not dumb-down or have separate training for EMT-Is, everyone gets the same education. Most of our EMT-Is have attended ACLS, and are very knowledgeable. We have had EMTs who kept rooky medics from making a mistake several times (like giving atrovent to a CHF patient).

I do not believe that children should be on the ambulance for all of the reasons already cited.

[Imagine89]

This same disscussion happens every time his topic comes up.

Dear all,

The level of education for BOTH medics and basics is ridiculously low. That said, other than perhaps a more advanced section of A&P and pre-cert clinical training, basics have enough textual knowledge to bandage a wound, and begin treatment for the more serious life threatening injuries. I would agree that a lot of the basic calls I go on involve arriving, getting a detailed history, providing whatever indicated interventionse we can, and then if warranted, calling ALS. That said, all of ALS calls involve arriving, providing more advanced indicated interventions (that they are educated to do), and if warranted (if it's not a refusal) getting the pt to the ER, aka, a higher level of care. I garuntee that analogy isn't going to be well taken. In EVERY profession, not just the field of medicine, there are levels of qualifications, and some require less education. I'm not saying that our education levels are correct, in fact I think they need to be raised, especially that of basics, to include clinicals. I agree that after 120 hours, we don't have the ability to jump right into the field and start practicing. Ride alongs should be required for certification, as well as a more advanced base in A&P. That said, the medic educational standard should also be raised.

As for the topic of age, our cadet program cuts it off at 16 and a half, so everyone we certify has to be able to drive. There is always someone 18+ on the call, and once certified as EMTs, our cadets are "promoted" to provisional emts, at which time a checklist must be completed (that involves preforming a shit load of pt assessments, and using all interventions that we have available to us) for full membership. We have a few 17 year old full members, but that's as young as it gets. I'm one of them, and I must say that regardless of my education, which I've already said, probably wasn't adequate, I behave myself in a professional manner ,and do everything in my power to treat the patient with respect, even if it's a psych call and they just need someone to talk to. As I've said in previous posts, maturity isn't directly correlated to age.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Imagine, I hear ya Maturity isn't always correlateble to age but it is a significant contributor. You may be mature for your age but you are in the very very very small minority.

I believeyou can do the job and I believe you do it well, at least from what I can gather here.

But you know, it's hard enough to get grown up medics and emt's to act mature as many of them act immature at times.

But I would still be hesitant to let a 16 year old take care of me on a scene. I'd want to wait till an adult or someone older got there. Now if you are the only one then I guess I'd have to deal with it but not happily.

Let's turn this around -------- Would you be comfortable with a 16 year old doctor performing surgery on you???????? because that scenario is no different than what we have discussed.

[medic001918]

We have had EMTs who kept rooky medics from making a mistake several times (like giving atrovent to a CHF patient).

If you have rookie medics making fundamental mistakes, then maybe your service needs to reevaluate it's precepting policies? Just a thought. It shouldn't ever fall on an EMT to prevent a medic from making a rookie mistake like that. Especially since the knowledge of those kinds of interventions is not provided on the basic level of education. Just a thought...otherwise, I'm agreeing that kids shouldn't be on ambulances.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Imagine89]

Imagine, I hear ya Maturity isn't always correlateble to age but it is a significant contributor. You may be mature for your age but you are in the very very very small minority.

I believeyou can do the job and I believe you do it well, at least from what I can gather here.

But you know, it's hard enough to get grown up medics and emt's to act mature as many of them act immature at times.

But I would still be hesitant to let a 16 year old take care of me on a scene. I'd want to wait till an adult or someone older got there. Now if you are the only one then I guess I'd have to deal with it but not happily.

Let's turn this around -------- Would you be comfortable with a 16 year old doctor performing surgery on you???????? because that scenario is no different than what we have discussed.

That analogy is a long shot, because surgery is a whole lot different than administering o2, getting pt history, maintaining c-spine, and preforming basic first aid. I wouldn't want to have a sixteen yr old kid poking into me, regardless of his maturity level, because his sensory-motor mechanisms aren't completely developed, adn thusly he doesn't have the coordination that an adult does. If you were to ask me if I'd want a 16 year old medic, I'd also say no... But IMO, a 16 yr old EMT can adequately perform the skills he's expected to if properly trained and educated in both maturity and the actual material, and if he can handle the stress.

[GAmedic1506]

You are right, we just revamped the whole orientation/ departmental training process.