windsong Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 Oh did I mention I am not perfect because if I were, well you get the idea, God never intended to make perfect beings. Understanding OTHER people's way of life and what they believe in, is cool with me, I have a whole stack of books called the Zohar. I wanted to know God more, I was raised catholic but felt compelled to reach deeper for a better understanding of all of this. Heck James Redfield is one of my favorite author's, he's new age. We are so complacent that we search outside the circle, to find something more deeper that what our own faith never had. I've tried Buddha for peace of mind because thats what it was to me, they seemed to have the answer. I'm reading a book called Dianetics not because these ppl believed aliens did whatever they say they did, I read the book because I believed that we are at an extent programed, we are an ingram and I want to be a clear. I'm tired of hearing people telling me what it is I have to do, dont think for a minute that there's nothing wrong with you and in fact there is, if you cant see it then, I guess like everyone else you are a walking ticking time bomb waiting to go off. I share with you science, the compelling truth, if you've ever felt there was something holding you back in life, ruining your plans and stopping you from being who you wanted to be, you were right. The fact is, there is a single source of all our problems, stress, unhappiness and self doubt. They call this the reactive mind-the hidden part of your mind that stores all the painful experiences and then uses them against you. I'm not reading Dianetics because they thought Aliens were their God, I'm reading it because I'm tired of all the garbage out there, it doesnt mean I'll give up God, it simply means that I will rid myself of all the thoughtless, blaming ignorant society painted on me. What you believe in, is your deciding not the world's, go in peace my friends.
medic_4_life Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 Way to go Marty (scaremedic).....loved the reply......YES I believe in God.....I can only say if you don't or have never felt His closeness...say a prayer ask Him and see.............
gods_medic Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 8) Howdy guys !!!! guess who ? I for one, believe in GOD- I mean - I work for the GUY. I agree with mike - "I would rather believe and be wrong than not believe and be wrong" - well put mike . Thank You. There have been many people that have passed on-( died and came back to life )-( believers and non-believers ),that have shared their stories about their experiences in heaven or hell. They've shared what they saw, heard, felt, and smelled. It was all very real to them.The experience changed their lives for ever. None of them ever saw GOD either. But the bible does state " there shall no man see me and live " - EXODUS 33:20 . I believe that GOD has a greater plan for us than just to spend a short time here on earth and then it's all over when we die. We were created in HIS image - we are an intelligent people and in HIS image we truly are. He ( GOD ) is the ultimate creator and like HIM, we too create. He seeks to have a relationship with us just as we seek to have a relationship with those we care about. As far as how old the earth is - no one really knows." One day is with the LORD as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. "-2 PETER 3:8. The heat in the earth's core makes everything age really fast just like something that is hanging from your rear view mirror ages really fast from the sun's rays comming through the window. Not everything in GOD'S creation was meant for us to know or understand. Do you remember when you were still a child and your parents would say to you that you couldn't do that or go there, say certain words or behave in a certain manner ? - well then - we being GOD'S children , are not allowed to know certain things that GOD has kep't from us. But we know that it is for our own good or for our own benefit. I choose to believe the bible. That it ( the bible ), is GOD'S written word - written by men that were inspired by GOD's HOLY SPIRIT. Some day, everyone will believe in GOD - whether in heaven or in hell. " That at the name of JESUS every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess thst JESUS CHRIST is LORD to the glory of GOD the FATHER. " philippians 2:10 - 11. GOD IS REAL !!!!!!! _ you can count on it. May GOD truly bless you. your brother in EMS, GODS_MEDIC .
Michael Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Some dybbuk keeps preventing me from posting the Wikipdeia link to Pascal's Wager here, not because I think it's the way to approach the question, but for historical interest.
nbsp Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I realize this is going to stir up some ca-ca, but some things were said that I wanted to respond to, and I also wanted to add in my own voice to this "discussion". First, the introduction. I am a liberal atheist from the Bay Area in California, the heart of liberal country. I was not brought up in a christian environment, and most of my friends are not christian. I have not read the bible, gone to church, or taken a class in theology as some people here seem to think I should, because I did not see any reason to. I have a few christian friends, but we never talk about that stuff. Now that that you know where I'm coming from, lets get the painful part over with. There are some things that made my brain hurt and I wanted to respond to it. Please note that any hate is directed towards the authors and not people of faith in general. I make a conscious effort to consider everyone as intelligent equals, although it's hard to judge if it really works. (what I mean by this is, for example, a man may claim not to be homophobic and wholeheartedly believe it, but when coming into contact with a homosexual certainly drops the facade.) You realize that if you don't belive in God, then you don't believe in yourself, and PRPG as we know it DOES NOT EXIST!!!! I believe and seriously hope this is a joke. Wow vs-eh, you're a very bitter negative person. It tends to p*ss me off when pseudo-intellectuals talk down to people who believe in God, a higher power, an omnipotent being or what have you. These people rant and rave about God not existing and the several thousand ways to say that He (yes, God is a man) doesn't exist. Even though they tend to be more annoying than Jehovah's Witnesses on a early Saturday morning. For every argument against, there are at least one for. It all ties down to one word: Faith There are those who believe if they can't see it, then it can't exist. These are usually the same people trying to make their lives happier by buying stuff to fill any empty voids in their lives because of faithlessness, parents didn't show them enough love, etc. They will have children who will only know love by what people buy them. The nonsensical babble about keys being God is a circular way of "The Wookie Defense" used in a particularly good episode of South Park. If you don't know what I mean, expand your mind and watch it. If you're not above it that is. Does God exist? Yes. Am I a model Christian? Absolutely not. I am the farthest thing from it. If you can look at a rose, a child being born, or a beautiful naked woman and think that there is no God that's fine, you must have no soul. Or you're a woman or gay. ugly This is one of the ones that really make my head hurt. The whole first paragraph translates in my head to: "I am going to call you an idiot and a jerk in a pretentious manner, ignoring the fact that this will get me nowhere in a manner still practiced only by third-graders and congressmen. I will now use a cliche but rather cool method to make my next argument seem more valid." Then he says "Atheists are stupid materialistic bastards. I will now reference a episode of the rather awesome show, "South Park", claiming it to make me more knowledgeable than you, while offering no information on what it was about or things learned from it. And watching this episode will somehow make you greatly more intelligent, nevermind that in order to watch it without watching the show every day, and waiting for it to be shown on tv as a re-run by chance, you would have to either illegally download it or buy a dvd of an entire season, making it rather impractical. Now please listen to my poetry while ignoring all of the bad things of the world. Isn't this so blissful?" A rose proves to you that god exists? Are you freaking kidding me? Just curious but how do they determine that the earth is billions of years old? Are they accurate? Because for us bible believing people..the earth should only be maybe 6000 or so years old. And you would think that dinosaur bones from billions or millions of years ago would be nothing but specks of dust. I don't particularly dislike this person but she is grossly misinformed, although to her credit I will admit that what she said is not necessarily incorrect. Yes, bones from several million years ago couldn't possibly survive intact. What's left is not bone but fossil. The method for determining the age of the earth shall be discussed below. MedicDude has already answered the bone question so I will not continue. And now we arrive at the man who I know I shouldn't hate but really kind of annoys me. I have a couple good friends that type like this. They don't talk about this stuff in the RL but are greatly religious and for some reason not only capitalize everything related to christianity, but put every letter in caps. This is rather confusing to me as I am used to the rule: CAPSLOCK MEANS SHOUTING, DAMNIT! So as I'm reading it, the "capslocked" words jump out as shouts. I don't hate them for it but it's confusing and annoying. You get the picture. I for one, believe in GOD- I mean - I work for the GUY. I agree with mike - "I would rather believe and be wrong than not believe and be wrong" - well put mike . Thank You. huh. For some reason, my brain fixated on on the words "I mean - I work for the GUY" and wouldn't let go. This statement works on several assumptions, including: 1. You know the will of GOD. 2. This fact that you believe in GOD is made inherently obvious by the fact that you work for the GUY, because you know the will of GOD There have been many people that have passed on-( died and came back to life )-( believers and non-believers ),that have shared their stories about their experiences in heaven or hell. They've shared what they saw, heard, felt, and smelled. It was all very real to them.The experience changed their lives for ever. It depends on your definition of death, but this statement that people have died, come back to life, and experienced heaven or hell gets a hesitant nnnnnnnnnnnnnnno. I haven't heard of these experiences, and if you're referring to a near-death experience than these experiences are of definitely questionable validity, are uncommon, accompanying effects such as out-of-body experiences which could be easily verified in attempted studies, weren't. As far as how old the earth is - no one really knows." One day is with the LORD as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. "-2 PETER 3:8. The heat in the earth's core makes everything age really fast just like something that is hanging from your rear view mirror ages really fast from the sun's rays comming through the window. what? Scientists determined the age of the earth by radiometrically dating (carbon dating but on elements with much longer half-lives) meteorites from other places in the solar system and came up with a best-guess estimate of 4.54 billion years, with an uncertainty of 1 percent, which probably means a p-value of .01 if you've taken statistics, and if you've taken statistics you'll know that if by chance the number is off, it's not going to be very far off. I choose to believe the bible. That it ( the bible ), is GOD'S written word - written by men that were inspired by GOD's HOLY SPIRIT. Some day, everyone will believe in GOD - whether in heaven or in hell. " That at the name of JESUS every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess thst JESUS CHRIST is LORD to the glory of GOD the FATHER. " philippians 2:10 - 11. You believe in the bible. That's good for you. I believe religion does good for some people. But the expectation, hope, and belief that all people will become christian is wildly unreasonable. Now if you're still here after all that ca-ca stirring, I'll add in my own beliefs. I don't believe in god, nor souls, nor heaven or hell. That's right, I'm a hardcore cynical bastard atheist. I don't believe in divine retribution, I believe we must make our own justice. I don't believe in fate besides the kind that we make ourselves. I don't believe in a meaning of life, I believe we have the opportunity to give our lives meaning and we should, so in essence the meaning of life is to give life meaning. And I don't believe in the afterlife, I believe we have a short time here and we have a responsibility to make sure that that time is not shortened further and to give quality to not only our lives but the lives of others, and health care is the way I want to fulfill that responsibility. So no, I don't believe in god. But that doesn't make me weak or immoral or depressed. It just means I have to find my strength in myself. EDIT: "And watching this show will somehow make you greatly more intelligent, nevermind that in order to watch it you would have to..." CHANGED TO: "And watching this episode will somehow make you greatly more intelligent, nevermind that in order to watch it without watching the show every day, and waiting for it to be shown on tv by chance, you would have to..."
Ridryder 911 Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Lot of rambling for one that has not studied theology, or one that appears to misunderstand of what "faith" is. For every argument against, there is an argument for. For simplistic measures this thread should die. R/r 911
Michael Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Well, Rid, you never know what new angle in someone's approach might prompt another reader to rethink some assumption. It can also be interesting just to learn others' struggles. But it's impressive to find with how much confidence, not to say defiance, individuals normally cautious to base their scientific and technical judgments on evidence will blurt out vehement, absolutist declarations dismissing as invalid all variant testimony. This gives theological dispute, not to say philosophy, not to say free speech, a bad name. To those interested in trying others' viewpoints, Augustine's Confessions, Martin Buber's I and Thou, Pascal's Thoughts, Bertrand Russell's Why I am not a Christian, even Hesse's Siddhartha are pretty accessible inquiries. But they're useful only to the extent a reader is able to suspend formed opinions for the duration of the exposure. They can always be picked up again later. Charlie Chan say: Mind like parachute, only function when open.
DwayneEMTP Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I really like these threads. They tend to bring out the best and worst in people... nbsp, I don't really see why your post sure stir up any shit...I think it was pretty well stated and I can see your point. As a Christian (though today that term is not as specific as it used to be) I am often amazed by the arguments that are expected to sway non-believers to religion. I tend to start from the point of view that my faith is not based in provable fact (my feeling...others feel differently) and expect that anyone that is curious about my faith will expect me to have FACTS when I talk about it. I don't really have any....I have stories...that when put together...convinced me that there is more to life than what I can touch and feel. Someone else's stories would not have had the same effect. I don't believe mine will have that effect on others. We find our way or don't...I don't know what decides how it works. I also don't believe that faith makes you a good person. I know many atheists...without exception they are fine people...good friends...great parts of the community. (No...I'm not claiming to know all atheists, I'm sure plenty are assholes...just not the ones I know) Though I know many self professed Christians that I wouldn't allow around my family. What I wish for these discussions its that we could see that vs-eh? and nbsp make valid, logical points. By retorting with "I'll pray for you" (which obviously is not only a weak response but lost on someone that doesn't believe) or "Well I guess you're going to hell" we just degrade any opportunities for dialog...not such a good thing I think. These arguments are interesting to me because Christians seem to believe that speaking of God gives them credibility without the need to be validated. And atheists seem to have the need to disprove or at least disagree with anything and everything faith based. Gotta knock those bible thumpers off their thrones. Makes for some pretty fun discussions!! Have a great day all!! Dwayne
Scaramedic Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 "South Park" nevermind that in order to watch it you would have to either illegally download it or buy a dvd of an entire season, making it rather impractical. That's right, I'm a hardcore cynical bastard atheist. It just means I have to find my strength in myself. I'm sorry that whole "cynical" thing just made me laugh. Newsflash your 18 years old, you do not have the necessary life experience to call your self cynical. Forget the whole debate about is there a God, you need to put some mileage on your tires before you dare to judge others. I am sorry if this seems insulting but damn, you are living in a microcosm of this country and are under the belief you understand everything. You remind me of someone, who was it? Oh wait it was me, I also grew up in a very liberal, very wealthy and very closed minded community. Yep I said closed minded because super liberals are just as closed minded as your most hardcore right wing TV preacher. It is obvious you are still living under the umbrella of your parents . Why do I say this? Why would anyone have to illegally download or buy the DVD's of South Park? South Park is on every night on multiple stations, so I am guessing your parents do not allow you to watch it or they have all those channels locked out of your TV. Or maybe you don't have television instead you just sit around reading books from Al Gore or Cindy Sheehan. My point is you are in a very controlled environment, what you see, hear and just plain experience has not challenged you to think beyond your own doorstep. Finding your own strength at your age is easy, you haven't been challenged yet. Take this advice from someone who thought just like you (sigh) 20 years ago. You don't live in a community you live in an agenda, just like I grew up in. Do yourself a favor, move away. Live life outside of the bay area, then and only then can you truly understand what community and life is all about. Peace, Marty :joker: P.S. Have some fun, print off what you posted above. Save it and in twenty years read it again, I guarentee you'll get a good laugh out of it.
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